Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

Nostalrius official announcements

Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Plask » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:01 pm

Imbaslap wrote:hmmm lava spawn every 10 seconds... this would probably gate half the guilds on the server with this against a double firelord pack. lol

Why should it be different just so more guilds will have it easier? It's supposed to be as blizzlike as possible.

Imbaslap wrote:mobs change agro on stun effect? since when.
cant resist stun? its called stun resist. check talents lol?

What he means is stunned/disoriented/feared players will be prioritised under players that aren't regardless of threat. For example if the tank is feared on Onyxia, she should immediatly go for the highest on threat that isn't feared. If there isn't any, she will just go for the tank anyways (This never happens). Same applies for aoe stuns and disorients.

Imbaslap wrote:nice abilities.
what a joke.
any credible sources you have for this or are you pulling this crap out of your own delusional ass?

Stalk has done several reports with well researched information. If you're so good at it and know he's completely wrong I have a challenge for you: find accurate information for everything he posted about. With accurate I mean something that proves it was for vanilla and not WoD (you linked WoD database links which doesn't prove anything how it was in vanilla).

In addition, I will add some bugs that are still present in MC:
  • Baron Geddon sometimes moves when hellfiring. Sometimes he will stop channel hellfire and then channel it again for one tick.
  • Ragnaros haves a normal aggro list and no special aggro mechanic for attacking the closest player. Worked around on this server with him being tauntable (Most privates worked around it that way).
Sidesprang wrote:Defcap is overrated at current state of the game.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Imbaslap » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:30 pm

still waiting for those credible sources...

IE spell ID's, videos, changelog's from the patches to confirm what your "blizzlike" comments are about with proper dates between 2004-2006.
then once you find those answers, post the bugs on the bug tracker with those sources.. until then, stop saying things are broken with no source of how it "should" be on public forums. that's why they have a bug tracker? that's how things get fixed?
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Plask » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Imbaslap wrote:still waiting for those credible sources...

IE spell ID's, videos, changelog's from the patches to confirm what your "blizzlike" comments are about with proper dates between 2004-2006.
then once you find those answers, post the bugs on the bug tracker with those sources.. until then, stop saying things are broken with no source of how it "should" be on public forums. that's why they have a bug tracker? that's how things get fixed?


I posted credible sources before in threads like this, stubborn people rarely listens to different opinions regardless of what sources they have. I take it you don't want to post any sources. I for one don't feel the need to look up mine again, I've done it before and know I'm right.

Bugtracker is for reporting bugs. However, I don't get this stigma against discussing bugs in forums. These forums are meant for discussion am I not right? Circlejerking eachother on the forums how perfect everything is not something I would prefer, then we might aswell skip the whole forum part as there would be no room for discussion. Please be open-minded for discussion before you refrain to saying "this is for the bugtracker", It's like you can't even take the time to prove me or others wrong and just pass it on to the black hole of the bugtracker. I asked you to back up your claims as you seemed to think you're in the position to insult other people in the thread because "you're right", you didn't.
Sidesprang wrote:Defcap is overrated at current state of the game.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Stalk » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:23 pm

I've reported many bugs with raid content in the tracker and they have yet to be fixed or even commented on. I'm not going to bother wasting more of my free time putting a professional QA effort into the tracker until I see that the other things that I have reported are even acknowledged. The designers of this emulation server don't have an active interest in making all of the content design exactly as difficult as it was on retail. They wait for the players to report the problems and most players are not interested in having the problems fixed. These players are perfectly fine with everything being EZ mode so they can carry their massive E-peens as they rush through suboptimal content.

Continuing...

Firewalker - Incite Flames should be casted 1 or 2 times before the first Fire Blossom usually and the debuff is not causing a fire vulnerability if resistances are negative (this means that dispelling the debuff is not necessary to prevent becoming 1-shot by the Fire Blossom); Fire Blossom is currently bursting a few targets as soon as it is activated but what it should be doing is immobilizing the Firewalker in place for 6 seconds and casting a heavy fire damage projectile at a random raid member each second while it 'channels' the spell (this should allow you to max range the spell somewhat)

Flame Imps - many of these packs are skippable when they should be aggroing to the raid, most likely due to the fact that they just stand in one spot immobilized instead of having a short patrol route that they should be traveling

Flameguard - Cone of Fire can possibly 1-shot a tank if they have a fire vulnerability of -50 or more from the Firewalker debuff but vulnerabilities aren't working properly here, Melt Armor debuff is supposed to be a major threat to the tanks' ability to properly tank the other elementals if it stacks too high (this usually means that the Flameguard should be the first priority target in a Lava Pack pull but its not because the Lava Reavers/Elementals have joke damage)

Lava Reaver - missing Cleave ability, does not do enough melee damage (probably doesn't even have the Strike ability either)

Now for the bosses...

Lucifron - Missing a Shadow Shock ability that he should be using on all enemies within 20 yards (he should use this pretty frequently; the Mind Control from the Flamewaker Protectors is not threatening to the raid at all and the adds are supposed to channel while they mind control so they should not be hitting the tank during this process (Warriors and Priests should be trying to use their AoE fear on the raid as soon as it happens, Mages should Counterspell a caster, mainly healers that are casting a heal, or Polymorph a target, Warlocks should be trying to Howl or Fear raid members, etc), also, they should usually try to Mind Control near the start of the pull and if they do this to a tank that pulls then threat will be lost on the tank until he can use a threat generating ability/attack on the mob

Magmadar - Frenzy can be healed through usually very easily, during the Frenzy he should double the frequency of Fire Breath usage and should be frequently crushing the tank because no shield block will be up after the first 2-4 attacks usually (his normal attack should hit a tank for 800 to 1000 depending on armor value so the crushing blows should be 1200 to 1500), Magma Spit should be hitting some of the players in melee range other than the primary tank (this is supposed to make it difficult for melee to use bandages to heal in this fight), Panic is a shadow-based Fear so it should be binary resistable but binary resists aren't implemented particularly well on this server in PvE, the Lava Bombs should be casted with high priority at far ranged players in the fight but I see him consistently using it against the melee that are standing right behind him and he doesn't turn toward the player with focus when he is casting it at them like he should

Gehennas - Shadow Bolt should be casted frequently on members of the raid as this is his primary source of damage (instead he uses it rarely and hits the tank for a lot of damage, this causes the tank to have tons of rage to generate threat and the healers have less work to do with healing the raid), Fist of Ragnaros from the Flamewakers doesn't do any damage like it should (all it does is stun the melee range players) and they should switch targets if they stun the tank, Sunder Armor and Strike from the Flamewakers also seems to pose no threat because Fury warriors can easily tank these adds without getting crushed to death from having 0 armor and no Shield Block charges due to the Strike ability pushing them off before the cooldown is available again), a 2nd tank for each Flamewaker should be necessary to taunt when Sunder stacks are too high on the tank, or if the tank gets 2-shot, or if the tank loses aggro from being stunned.

Garr - Firesworn should be hitting tanks for about 1k damage with normal melee attack, Immolate is not used often enough and it only targets the tank target of each Firesworn, If a Firesworn gets too close to Garr sometime after the pull he should have a chance to erupt it and the Firesworn should emote and shortly explode after the emote (it is instant here and only happens after 50% when he should unbanish all the minions), Garr also doesn't hit very hard to begin with and when one of his adds die he should be hitting for extra damage but I see only faster attack speed being applied (he seems to hit the tank for the same amount of damage whether all Firesworn are alive or whether 4-5 are dead)

I will continue with the rest later but I have a feeling that I am wasting my time trying to explain this to you.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Imbaslap » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:18 pm

you're definitely wasting time by posting this on here and not on the bug tracker with credible sources for testing teams to verify. if nothing has been posted on your bug reports. maybe message an admin about it instead of spamming the announcement page with clutter?

lol what a joke you 2 are. I guess that is why nothing has been done about these bugs in MC. lulllllllllllllllllllllllll
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Local Horde Kidnapper of Tarren Mill.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Stalk » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:10 pm

Imbaslap wrote:you're definitely wasting time by posting this on here and not on the bug tracker with credible sources for testing teams to verify. if nothing has been posted on your bug reports. maybe message an admin about it instead of spamming the announcement page with clutter?

lol what a joke you 2 are. I guess that is why nothing has been done about these bugs in MC. lulllllllllllllllllllllllll


You're an idiot. You link to the vanillagaming database like it is a credible source of information. It is an exact copy of all the garbage in the Mangos Zero repo. I only put this information here because someone else asked about it. No one in this thread asked you to add your cancerous input about what you think the vanilla raiding experience should be. However, you did it anyways just like I chose to post in the thread with information because someone asked. Maybe you should waste countless hours of your time researching information about 10 year old content and posting bugs instead of trying to infect the forums with the filth that you spew forth from your keyboard. Be a scumbag on another forum please.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Pottu » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:14 pm

Plask wrote:I posted credible sources before in threads like this

Where? I'll forward them to the testing team in case they have missed them.

And Stalk/Plask/Imbaslap, please tone down the trash talking, it's not constructive at all. Imbaslap is correct in that merely stating "boss X should do Y" is pointless if it's not followed by some sort source for that information.
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Sulg » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:30 pm

Stalk wrote:
Imbaslap wrote:you're definitely wasting time by posting this on here and not on the bug tracker with credible sources for testing teams to verify. if nothing has been posted on your bug reports. maybe message an admin about it instead of spamming the announcement page with clutter?

lol what a joke you 2 are. I guess that is why nothing has been done about these bugs in MC. lulllllllllllllllllllllllll


You're an idiot. You link to the vanillagaming database like it is a credible source of information. It is an exact copy of all the garbage in the Mangos Zero repo. I only put this information here because someone else asked about it. No one in this thread asked you to add your cancerous input about what you think the vanilla raiding experience should be. However, you did it anyways just like I chose to post in the thread with information because someone asked. Maybe you should waste countless hours of your time researching information about 10 year old content and posting bugs instead of trying to infect the forums with the filth that you spew forth from your keyboard. Be a scumbag on another forum please.


While much of what you write is true, some of it is also incorrect. Besides, if you already posted it on the bugtracker(?), what's the point in even posting it here?

Lucifrons adds never channeled the MC, it had a ~3 second cast time though, and how players should act under the Mind Control is more related to general charm AI rather than the encounter? Although I also remember when mobs MCd you on retail you'd often blow all your CDs rapidly. Regarding his shadow shock I'm 99% sure it's a single target ability, or if it's AoE it can't be on more than 1-5 targets or so. He already uses it on Nostalrius, and far more frequently than you see in any old vanilla video, shit it even does slightly more damage than you see in videos.

The version of Garr you describe is also incorrect. From what I've gathered and read in other sources found on the bug tracker, he only blows up his adds when he either the fight's lasted more than 6 minutes, or all the adds are dead, in the last case he should start summoning new Firesworns and force them to blow up every ~20s or so. An encounter where any of the 8 adds can randomly blow up at any time without any triggers doesn't make much sense from a design perspective(disregarding banish etc), I really doubt it worked the way you describe.

Some old sources say he should unbanish all the adds at 50%, or start blowing them up at 20%, but I've never seen either happen in any of ~30 vanilla garr videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBrQzvt ... be&t=13m8s
In this video you see the first emote of Garr blowing up an add at ~13:14, which is ~6m3s after the pull, then another emote every ~20s after. You can also see the Druid recording being hit for ~800-1,100, probably with around 1500-2000 armor or so, but that's a rough guesstimate, but I don't think the Firesworns are supposed to hit particularly hard on players in full plate. I recall from retail we had a paladin in tier 3 tank 4 adds healing himself, with one additional healer on him.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=19516
Garr's Enrage spell afaik, should increase his attack speed by 9% for each add that dies.

Also good videos, recorded in patch 1.7 and 1.8 afaik. You can see them dodge the imp packs (despite being knocked around by surgers right next to them), all boss encounters in detail etc. From what I know, ragnaros was the only boss who got some significant changes to mechanics throughout vanilla, so it should be mostly valid for all the other bosses :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNeUxN1oT8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUim7uPdPM
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Stalk » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:34 pm

Sulg wrote:
While much of what you write is true, some of it is also incorrect. Besides, if you already posted it on the bugtracker(?), what's the point in even posting it here?

Lucifrons adds never channeled the MC, it had a ~3 second cast time though, and how players should act under the Mind Control is more related to general charm AI rather than the encounter? Although I also remember when mobs MCd you on retail you'd often blow all your CDs rapidly. Regarding his shadow shock I'm 99% sure it's a single target ability, or if it's AoE it can't be on more than 1-5 targets or so. He already uses it on Nostalrius, and far more frequently than you see in any old vanilla video, shit it even does slightly more damage than you see in videos.

The version of Garr you describe is also incorrect. From what I've gathered and read in other sources found on the bug tracker, he only blows up his adds when he either the fight's lasted more than 6 minutes, or all the adds are dead, in the last case he should start summoning new Firesworns and force them to blow up every ~20s or so. An encounter where any of the 8 adds can randomly blow up at any time without any triggers doesn't make much sense from a design perspective(disregarding banish etc), I really doubt it worked the way you describe.

Some old sources say he should unbanish all the adds at 50%, or start blowing them up at 20%, but I've never seen either happen in any of ~30 vanilla garr videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBrQzvt ... be&t=13m8s
In this video you see the first emote of Garr blowing up an add at ~13:14, which is ~6m3s after the pull, then another emote every ~20s after. You can also see the Druid recording being hit for ~800-1,100, probably with around 1500-2000 armor or so, but that's a rough guesstimate, but I don't think the Firesworns are supposed to hit particularly hard on players in full plate. I recall from retail we had a paladin in tier 3 tank 4 adds healing himself, with one additional healer on him.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=19516
Garr's Enrage spell afaik, should increase his attack speed by 9% for each add that dies.

Also good videos, recorded in patch 1.7 and 1.8 afaik. You can see them dodge the imp packs (despite being knocked around by surgers right next to them), all boss encounters in detail etc. From what I know, ragnaros was the only boss who got some significant changes to mechanics throughout vanilla, so it should be mostly valid for all the other bosses :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNeUxN1oT8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUim7uPdPM


I haven't posted all of this in the bugtracker because as I've said already, the bugs become ignored and you can see no discussion in the tracker or even an effort from the administration to do the research.

About Lucifron, you are correct that it is not channeled for the full duration of the debuff. However, there is a 3 second cast time and a short duration after the spell is casted where it appears that they are channeling for 1 second (some sort of focus/cast target animation in the direction of the player that is the target of the ability). You can see in the following video that they cast the Mind Control spell on random players within range every 5 to 6 seconds for each Flamewaker (they cast Mind Control rarely if ever on Nostalrius): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEm0c8X0NL8
It doesn't matter whether it is a problem with the charm script or not. This is the first boss in the major raid content and the most challenging part of the beginning of the encounter is completely left out. How challenging can we expect BWL to be if the beginner raid can't even be working the way that it should?

About Garr, the version that YOU describe is incorrect. Every single old guide about Garr talks about keeping the Firesworn away from Garr because he can blow them up at ANY time. They also describe his enrage as not only an attack speed boost but also a damage boost.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Garr?oldid=77533
http://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-o ... tures.html
http://www.blizzardguides.com/mc_molten ... osses.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0gQM0 ... page#t=139
In this video, you can see Firesworn hitting a level 70 tank during TBC for anywhere from 350 to 650 damage. In TBC, you would be anywhere from 70% to 75% reduction capped against level 60 enemies compared to the 55% that is in the current stage of itemization on this server. This means they do approx. 33% less damage to TBC tanks (and the damage of the Firesworn was not buffed in TBC so don't give me that garbage).

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Garr
"If Garr is pulled too far away from his adds, his adds become enraged and will hit Tier 2 geared tanks for 4-6k dmg. So don't pull him too far away. This ability is called "Separation Anxiety" and can be detected via the combat log or cast bar mods."

We should already know that Separation Anxiety increases the Firesworn damage by 300% which would mean it is possible for them to hit TIER 2 GEARED TANKS for 1000 to 1500 damage when they are not enraged. I would assume this does not include crushing blows judging by the video above that shows how wide of a damage range that the Firesworn should have.

Anyways, thank you for playing "I wanna grow up and be a tester". Until next time...
Stalk
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Re: Lag, Alterac Valley, & forbidden activities

by Viper » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:46 pm

If it's already in the bugtracker, no need to put it here, or maybe add additionnal information if necessary.
If it's not, feel free to add it with as much details as possible.

Development team doesn't work on a subject until IsVV team confirmed it.
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