What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[smilkovpetko]

Tell me how many Vanilla Paladin have you seen in Retail to use Spell Damage Weapon ?!.

Lots. A paladin on my server even had the Wraith Blade.

And if you read the guides written at that time, they did indeed suggest to use spell damage weapons for tanking.

That's what i been saying 2 years to this preachers here .

And point is that "not" lots been even doing naxx as tank .

[Tinkertown]

Well. I'm sorry to say that I'm more on their side than yours. Paladins can tank, but outside of big AoE situations where Consecration + Engineer Shield + Holy Shield did some crazy stuff the warriors are clearly superior.

Your experiences seem to be based entirely on how stuff has worked on other private servers rather than how stuff worked in vanilla retail. And it seems to have given you a picture that just isn't reflective of reality, and you seem to have great trouble letting go of it.

[smilkovpetko]

Well. I'm sorry to say that I'm more on their side than yours. Paladins can tank, but outside of big AoE situations where Consecration + Engineer Shield + Holy Shield did some crazy stuff the warriors are clearly superior.

Your experiences seem to be based entirely on how stuff has worked on other private servers rather than how stuff worked in vanilla retail. And it seems to have given you a picture that just isn't reflective of reality, and you seem to have great trouble letting go of it.

My experiences are coming from Retail Vanilla .

That's why i am not the same as everyone in Private servers.

In fact there was no other private server that i been playing than peenix .

Peenix in fact had clearly broken abilities that doesn't work at all and aggro was reduced compare to retail due to non working abilities (such as improved sor) .

And sorry unless you give me pure evidence i deny that Warrior doing more "TPS" than Paladin in single target.

Nobody gives evidence of Paladin that uses Spell Damage Aggro VS Warrior.

[justclassic]

Well. I'm sorry to say that I'm more on their side than yours. Paladins can tank, but outside of big AoE situations where Consecration + Engineer Shield + Holy Shield did some crazy stuff the warriors are clearly superior.

Your experiences seem to be based entirely on how stuff has worked on other private servers rather than how stuff worked in vanilla retail. And it seems to have given you a picture that just isn't reflective of reality, and you seem to have great trouble letting go of it.

My experiences are coming from Retail Vanilla .

That's why i am not the same as everyone in Private servers.

In fact there was no other private server that i been playing than peenix .

Peenix in fact had clearly broken abilities that doesn't work at all and aggro was reduced compare to retail due to non working abilities (such as improved sor) .

And sorry unless you give me pure evidence i deny that Warrior doing more "TPS" than Paladin in single target.

Nobody gives evidence of Paladin that uses Spell Damage Aggro VS Warrior.

I don't think there needs to be any kind of evidence as a warrior can easily hold aggro of a single unit while BoS is on the grp. So regardless of which of them generates more aggro, neither of them is superior to the other one as both can maintain single target aggro.

It's like choosing between a car that drives 250 km/h or a car that drives 260 km/h while you know that 200 km/h would be enough to win the race.

So you better look at aspect where they differ from each other. I don't think there is one(except mentioned AoE situations) where paladin is superior to warrior but feel free to enlighten me.

[Aethelwulf]

The superior aggro issue arises because classes can become threat-capped on DPS, so a tank's aggro output directly affects the raid's DPS. If a warrior does 20% more threat than a Paladin, that would mean there is no point in a Paladin tank because the Warrior allows everyone to unload 20% more damage before they steal threat. At lower amounts of threat generation, we even see accidents where unlucky crits can swipe aggro. So even if it is possible to tank the encounter with less threat, you would be slowing down the raid and making it a riskier process. Threat generation basically sets the raid's damage ceiling.

[justclassic]

The superior aggro issue arises because classes can become threat-capped on DPS, so a tank's aggro output directly affects the raid's DPS. If a warrior does 20% more threat than a Paladin, that would mean there is no point in a Paladin tank because the Warrior allows everyone to unload 20% more damage before they steal threat. At lower amounts of threat generation, we even see accidents where unlucky crits can swipe aggro. So even if it is possible to tank the encounter with less threat, you would be slowing down the raid and making it a riskier process. Threat generation basically sets the raid's damage ceiling.

Okay so I might be miles off but how much dps do you expect dps(maintained not peak) to deal in order to outaggro a tryharding warrior ?

[Aethelwulf]

Depends on the tank really, but threat cap is often an issue for serious DPS which is why any raid will prefer more tank aggro. It's also why Thunderfury is an extremely valuable weapon for tanks. Sure a Warrior could already tank without a Thunderfury, but the added aggro lets the raid DPS harder and clear content faster. It is also why occasionally you see Warlocks being raid-specced as MD/Ruin because the -20% threat from Master Demonologist it boosts the amount of DPS they can afford to unleash by raising the aggro ceiling.

[smilkovpetko]

The superior aggro issue arises because classes can become threat-capped on DPS, so a tank's aggro output directly affects the raid's DPS. If a warrior does 20% more threat than a Paladin, that would mean there is no point in a Paladin tank because the Warrior allows everyone to unload 20% more damage before they steal threat. At lower amounts of threat generation, we even see accidents where unlucky crits can swipe aggro. So even if it is possible to tank the encounter with less threat, you would be slowing down the raid and making it a riskier process. Threat generation basically sets the raid's damage ceiling.

o RLY! .. This just proves how Warriors get worse at High End Aggro , Because their Aggro is Limited .

In this case Paladin wins by far because our Threats scale based of Spell Damage.
(where you talking with assumptions there is no real evidence that warrior does 20% more aggro than Paladin at any cost) .

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6407_o.jpg

I am not even maintanking this Boss and my aggro is close to Warrior , where if i Maintank i would benefit far more due to "return damage".

[Aethelwulf]

I'll have to disagree there. I'm afraid my last post is not much proof of anything, other than that fact that superior threat generation is important.

Superior mitigation and "oh shit" buttons are also important to a tanking discussion, of course, but in that matter we have already decidedly concluded that a Warrior is superior, in matters of uncrushability, armor potions (the paladin must use mana pots), as well as the use of Last Stand and Lifegiving Gem for Warriors.

[smilkovpetko]

I'll have to disagree there. I'm afraid my last post is not much proof of anything, other than that fact that superior threat generation is important.

Superior mitigation and "oh shit" buttons are also important to a tanking discussion, of course, but in that matter we have already decidedly concluded that a Warrior is superior, in matters of uncrushability, armor potions (the paladin must use mana pots), as well as the use of Last Stand and Lifegiving Gem for Warriors.

while tanking Boss i never use Mana potion , and i use Armor Potions.
and i never oom.