What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[smilkovpetko]

You can always tell that someone's full of shit when he has to pepper his posts with personal insults in order to try to sound like he's winning an argument. You're such a weak person.

PS: stop trying to sound like you're somehow a genius for defying what generations of WoW players have known all along. If prot paladin was a great spec, it would have been taken seriously. But it isn't.

You have no arguments to bring, you just have your trolling which exposes your deluded need for self-glorification and your cluelessness. So, you cannot win a discussion. You'll always be the loser.

You have no arguments to bring, you just have your trolling which exposes your deluded need for self-glorification and your cluelessness. So, you cannot win a discussion. You'll always be the loser.


See what is wrong currently with you ?
Someone just said the opposite of you including evidences that prove the opposite of what you just said.
Therefore you decide to insult ?
I just explained the false information that you are trying to spread. And i gave evidences that i will re post again.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5668F94D

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569B316D

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569D232A

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569A5CEF

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=56685F8D

With evidences i don't even need to bring arguments . Because they are proves of opposite from you.

[Theloras]

You can always tell that someone's full of shit when he has to pepper his posts with personal insults in order to try to sound like he's winning an argument. You're such a weak person.

PS: stop trying to sound like you're somehow a genius for defying what generations of WoW players have known all along. If prot paladin was a great spec, it would have been taken seriously. But it isn't.

You have no arguments to bring, you just have your trolling which exposes your deluded need for self-glorification and your cluelessness. So, you cannot win a discussion. You'll always be the loser.

PS Cazic - you don't have to just take my word for it or even Killerduki's - but you may want to read what Undertanker had to say earlier on in this thread:

"Please allow people to gather the correct information they seek before your plague of opinion infects others. Pally are a very capable tank, though current version of deathbone set makes it hard to reach def cap. It is not needed with the tanking role a pally will serve best at. AOE tanking."
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20825#p137608

And then his gem of a comment to all the LOLPROTPALADIN naysayers without any first hand experience playing the class let alone any other spec other than Holy Flash of Light spam further down:

"What irritates me is somebody made a class decision based off garbage advice."
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20825#p137758

[Xardon]

After reading this entire thread, and as someone who makes a living in the courtroom, Theloras and Undertanker make very convincing arguments for the feasibility of Paladin tanking in Vanilla WoW. Add in the fact that Nostalrius is more of a nostalgic server than a hardcore progression server, as well as the fact that those opposing the feasibility of Paladin tanking appear to support their argument with almost no evidence other than "it doesn't work", I for one am convinced that Warriors are not the only viable tanking class.

Very impressive, guys.

My humble two cents.

[Theloras]

After reading this entire thread, and as someone who makes a living in the courtroom, Theloras and Undertanker make very convincing arguments for the feasibility of Paladin tanking in Vanilla WoW. Add in the fact that Nostalrius is more of a nostalgic server than a hardcore progression server, as well as the fact that those opposing the feasibility of Paladin tanking appear to support their argument with almost no evidence other than "it doesn't work", I for one am convinced that Warriors are not the only viable tanking class.

Very impressive, guys.

My humble two cents.

On behalf of everyone who positively contributed to this thread, a sincere thank you to you sir

[Pallysir]

This gives me some kind of hope that I might be able to go 100% prot in the future, but I think for now holy pally is definitely a safe bet to start out as. You can always get gear healing anyway if you ask the group leader that you want to roll on tank gear, which usually does end up in being shut down but you'll get a group eventually

[Aethelwulf]

While Paladins can tank instances just fine, as a raid tank there are two huge issues that are being overlooked.

1. Mana. In long fights Paladins go OOM if they spam. Burning Crusade fixes this with the Spiritual Attunement passive which causes Paladins to gain mana equal to 10% of the heal whenever they get healed.
2. Threat generation. Even if Paladins manage to hold threat, Warriors generate more threat, and a raid's damage output is threat-capped because nobody wants to pull aggro by doing too much damage. This means that if a Warrior outputs just 10% more threat, the rest of the raid can afford to deal 10% more damage. In some encounters where you're on a clock to kill a boss, this is critical. Pre-1.9, a Paladin could just use Judgement of Fury to stack positively absurd amounts of threat, but that is no longer an option.

If I were going for an offbeat tank, I would sooner have Warlocks tank because these are not issues to them. Searing Pain does an absurd +100% threat while being spammable and mana efficient, and Life Tap means a Warlock won't run out of mana. The downside in a Warlock's lower damage reduction is offset by his ludicrously high threat generation allowing everyone to heal and damage with abandon.

[smilkovpetko]

While Paladins can tank instances just fine, as a raid tank there are two huge issues that are being overlooked.

1. Mana. In long fights Paladins go OOM if they spam. Burning Crusade fixes this with the Spiritual Attunement which passively gives the Paladin mana equal to 10% of heal at all times.
2. Threat generation. Even if Paladins manage to hold threat, Warriors generate more threat, and a raid's damage output is threat-capped because nobody wants to pull aggro by doing too much damage. This means that if a Warrior outputs just 10% more threat, the rest of the raid can afford to deal 10% more damage. In some encounters where you're on a clock to kill a boss, this is critical. Pre-1.9, a Paladin could just use Judgement of Fury to stack positively absurd amounts of threat, but that is no longer an option.

If I were going for an offbeat tank, I would sooner have Warlocks tank because these are not issues to them. Searing Pain does an absurd +100% threat while being spammable and mana efficient, and Life Tap means a Warlock won't run out of mana. The downside in a Warlock's lower damage reduction is offset by his ludicrously high threat generation allowing everyone to heal and damage with abandon.

[*]Mana. In long fights Paladins go OOM if they spam. Burning Crusade fixes this with the Spiritual Attunement which passively gives the Paladin mana equal to 10% of heal at all times.

This is Entirely missleading to wrong judgement , there is no fight which will make you complete OOM without any purpose and there is no point to spam headless , also you have Major Mana Potion and Demonic Runes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_YEl0Yp8I
(take a look on threat)

Take a look Careful on the Mana at this Video. (the only long fight that require spamming)
There is how "Mana Management" work without any item that gives Mana. (all abilities used are Max Rank).

Threat generation. Even if Paladins manage to hold threat, Warriors generate more threat, and a raid's damage output is threat-capped because nobody wants to pull aggro by doing too much damage. This means that if a Warrior outputs just 10% more threat, the rest of the raid can afford to deal 10% more damage. In some encounters where you're on a clock to kill a boss, this is critical. Pre-1.9, a Paladin could just use Judgement of Fury to stack positively absurd amounts of threat, but that is no longer an option.[/list]

If Paladins use Spell Damage Weapon the he will do 3 times more Threats than any Warrior can imagine.
If you want your Entire Raid to Maximise DPS , feel free to bring Prot Paladin MainTanking with Spell Damage Weapon , Spell Damage Weapon Enchant , Spell Damage Consumes.
Then you will have Paladin Tank crushing this KTM metter while you "Ignite" Mages are nowhere near close to him.

Example taken with "Each tank use 1 target" and who is doing more "Threat" .

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6300_o.jpg

Take a look on KTM . (even thou there is used lowest spell damage weapon on non undead fight).

If I were going for an offbeat tank, I would sooner have Warlocks tank because these are not issues to them. Searing Pain does an absurd +100% threat while being spammable and mana efficient, and Life Tap means a Warlock won't run out of mana. The downside in a Warlock's lower damage reduction is offset by his ludicrously high threat generation allowing everyone to heal and damage with abandon.

Paladins are 10 times more AOE DPS and Threat than any Warlock , + it is Tank wearing which it have extreme AoE mitigation.


Fixed for you because you talk nonsense about Threat and Mana .

Paladin Tank using Spell Damage Weapon in fact doing 3-4 times more Threat than Warrior Tank. The threat output that single Paladin is doing is far ahead than any Warrior , especially when Warrior Tank get more Gear his Threats get reduced due to "no rage receive" from avoidance.

[Aethelwulf]

1. He's tanking/kiting adds. Yes, Paladins can AoE tank well. It's single-target tanking where they have issues ever since Seal of Fury and its corresponding judgement got removed in Patch 1.9.
2. Define Spell Damage Weapon. Do you mean a weapon that gives spell damage or a weapon that scales with spell damage (ie. Fiery Retributer, Storm Gauntlets, etc.)? Because I'm pretty sure the latter's scaling is just a private server thing and not actually vanilla. There are some procs that scale with spell damage but not flat bonuses to all attacks.
3. I was referring to single target tanking. But for AoE tanking Warlocks do have Hellfire which does 208 DPS base (horrible spell damage scaling though).
4. While a Warlock is not going to gear the 140 defense needed for certain absurdly heavy hitting bosses (neither are Paladins until Deathbone comes out with 1.11 content and Nostalrius is still on 1.5), a Warlock's own mitigation and superior health pool is sufficient for a lot of bosses. Once you factor in the superior threat output of a Warlock allowing your raid to DPS harder, you'd sooner have a convincing argument for letting a Warlock tank it than a Paladin.

[smilkovpetko]

1. He's tanking/kiting adds. Yes, Paladins can AoE tank well. It's single-target tanking where they have issues ever since Seal of Fury and its corresponding judgement got removed in Patch 1.9.
2. Define Spell Damage Weapon. Do you mean a weapon that gives spell damage or a weapon that scales with spell damage (ie. Fiery Retributer, Storm Gauntlets, etc.)? Because I'm pretty sure the latter's scaling is just a private server thing and not actually vanilla. There are some procs that scale with spell damage but not flat bonuses to all attacks.
3. I was referring to single target tanking. But for AoE tanking Warlocks do have Hellfire which does 208 DPS base (horrible spell damage scaling though).
4. While a Warlock is not going to gear the 140 defense needed for certain absurdly heavy hitting bosses (neither are Paladins until Deathbone comes out with 1.11 content and Nostalrius is still on 1.5), a Warlock's own mitigation and superior health pool is sufficient for a lot of bosses. Once you factor in the superior threat output of a Warlock allowing your raid to DPS harder, you'd sooner have a convincing argument for letting a Warlock tank it than a Paladin.

Define Spell Damage Weapon. Do you mean a : Weapon that gives spell damage

It's single-target tanking where they have issues ever since Seal of Fury and its corresponding judgement got removed in Patch 1.9.

That's why we got "Righteous Fury" that increase Threats by Holy Damage by (improved) 90%.
We also got Holy Shield which also increase Threats too by x more each block + the holy damage output.

Because I'm pretty sure the latter's scaling is just a private server thing and not actually vanilla.

How you are "pretty sure" do you have evidence please show everyone ?!.

Already official announced by wikipedia and so much theory websites about retail during vanilla period:

HEALING/SPELL POWER COEFFICIENTS

10% Seal of Righteousness with 1 handed weapon
12.5% Seal of Righteousness with 2 handed weapon
50% Judgement of Righteousness
20% Seal of Command
29% Seal of Command (only with +holy damage bonuses)
43% Judgement of Command
33% Consecration
43% Holy Shock
43% Hammer of Wrath
43% Exorcism
19% Holy Wrath
00% Blessing of Sanctuary ;;
20% Holy Shield
00% Retribution Aura ;;
71% Holy Light
43% Flash of Light

That's why you have Official Spell Damage coefficient tested and proved by retail Blizzard players during these periods.

While a Warlock is not going to gear the 140 defense needed for certain absurdly heavy hitting bosses (neither are Paladins until Deathbone comes out with 1.11 content and Nostalrius is still on 1.5)

There is a list of gear that "Paladins" can use and get the def cap if you search around .

by Undertanker » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:11 pm
Let me explain something about tank gear. (ignoring you highjacked an educational thread with ignorance).

I am a MT warrior. I only use 3/8 T1 gear. 8/8 T1 gives around 60 def. This is a 5 man tanking set only as the 8/8 gives more sunder threat. It is shit, and once the death bone -a 5 man blue OMG..... gets upgraded, I will be 1/8 T1 just for stam bracer, and 4/5 deathbone. The belt, and gloves have same stam as T1 and 2x the def.

My cloak, 5 man blue, trinket, onxyia turn in, and brd trinket (which is BiS aoe tanking which pally LOL at due to 25 damage reduction x how many mobs).

BRD ring when it gets upgraded, currently use don ring for tps, dark iron ring.

Next is a blue -OMG not again.... Neck. Medallion of grand mashal morris.

Shield, for def cap guess what, best shield in game til Chromag is a blue, deflector from ubrs.

MC has no MT raiding weapons. Brd blue legs have amazing def and were only replaced by T2. A pally with go deathbone here. Helm, golem helm is used, OMG a blue which i didnt replace till T2.

Your only attept to put up facts was gear availabilty and what is used for tanking. Prob is you came to a battle of wits unarmed.

Your second arguement wad because everybody else does something so that is the best way. Take that approach to economics, so the poor are doing it right cause there are more people living in dept than the 2%who are not?

Can I keep up with pally threat, no. My threat is limited and doesnt scale much with gear. Actually has a chance to go down due to avoidance means no rage, so no threat. A MT war uses 1.3 speed dager and raid buffed auto attack gives 3 rage.

Can I AOE tank better, no. I even have Rag damagw deflect trinket. Aoe packs are always lower level and do little damage, aoe is only thing that matters on those pulls.

Where do I excell? Oh shit buttons, better EH. Due to gear. I am the best role for the hardesy hitting mother fuckas in the game. Plain and simple.

I am currently gearing up 2 pallies in guild that will be aoe tanking certain fights, healing others.

Seeing your lack of knowledge in itemization, only purple > blue, you already showed your narrow mindedness gas is epic.

Take this as lesson because you already talk too much nonsenses .

[Aethelwulf]

It's single-target tanking where they have issues ever since Seal of Fury and its corresponding judgement got removed in Patch 1.9.

That's why we got "Righteous Fury" that increase Threats by Holy Damage by (improved) 90%.
We also got Holy Shield which also increase Threats too by x more each block + the holy damage output.

You had Holy Shield before. Judgement of Fury used to give something like 300+ flat threat every time you did holy damage to your enemy, so you used it with Seal of Righteousness, Retribution Aura, Consecration, and Holy Shield and you would generate so much threat that you had that aggro locked down like a champ. You could also exploit Seal of Fury with Judgement of Wisdom to double your mana recovery procs since Seal of Fury's bonus threat worked by applying an extra invisible hit for threat after each attack. Righteous Fury just doesn't compare for single-target tanking.

How you are "pretty sure" do you have evidence please show everyone ?!. [snip] That's why you have Official Spell Damage coefficient tested and proved by retail Blizzard players during these periods.

...You completely misunderstood me, I see. Whatever, since you're not talking about the weapons and gear I thought you were, it's irrelevant.

There is a list of gear that "Paladins" can use and get the def cap if you search around.

Sure, and almost all of it goes to Warriors first, making it hard to get your hands on it. If you have a guild that's helpful in these matters, then sure, go ahead and gear it.

As for the Undertanker quote, once again, no one is disputing that Paladins can AoE tank. The question is whether they make decent main tanks in lengthy fights.