Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warriors?

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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Aethelwulf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:01 pm

If you're trying to kill mobs as a high spell damage Holy Paladin then you'd want the fastest weapon you can get to maximize your Seal of Righteousness damage, which would be the one-handed Flurry Axe (technically the 2H Manual Crowd Pummeler is faster if you want to burn charges, but that's more of a PvP trick).

If you're solo grinding mobs with a 2H, I think you'd rather want a Ravager (with maybe a Crusader or Fiery Blaze enchant) so that you can aoe grind mobs.
Last edited by Aethelwulf on Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:20 pm

by Aethelwulf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:01 pm
Seal of Reckoning damage
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Theloras » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:02 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:If you're trying to kill mobs as a high spell damage Holy Paladin then you'd want the fastest weapon you can get to maximize your Seal of Reckoning damage, which would be the one-handed Flurry Axe (technically the 2H Manual Crowd Pummeler is faster if you want to burn charges, but that's more of a PvP trick).

If you're solo grinding mobs with a 2H, I think you'd rather want a Ravager (with maybe a Crusader or Fiery Blaze enchant) so that you can aoe grind mobs.


^^^quite possibly the dumbest thing ever written about Paladins^^^

Seal of Reckoning? LOL, never knew we had a spell called that

Ravager? LOL, when ravager swings, no Seals or weapon procs are triggered
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Aethelwulf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:20 pm

Right, fixed.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:27 pm

well it is good to know that this person have no idea or any clue that the most beneficial seal from +spell is Command which require Slow and Strong 2h weapon + can proc from Seal and Judge it's Weapon proc as it's proc scales with SP that is perfect combination with Sulfuras that can achieve "double/triple" proc at once if lucky.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Aethelwulf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:19 pm

That's nice if you're swinging slow weapons as ret, but SoR adds 10% of spell damage to every hit guaranteed. While SoC has a 29% coefficient, it also has a 7 PPM procrate. SoR on a Flurry Axe by contrast can inflict 40 SoR procs in a minute assuming you somehow got zero flurry procs and aren't using Hand of Justice. Manual Crowd Pummeler can outperform with 45 procs in the same time but it doesn't proc bonus attacks and you give up your offhand. Presumably it does scale more aggressively off of attack power and SoR's scaling damage component given the 2.0 base speed though.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:49 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:That's nice if you're swinging slow weapons as ret, but SoR adds 10% of spell damage to every hit guaranteed. While SoC has a 29% coefficient, it also has a 7 PPM procrate. SoR on a Flurry Axe by contrast can inflict 40 SoR procs in a minute assuming you somehow got zero flurry procs and aren't using Hand of Justice. Manual Crowd Pummeler can outperform with 45 procs in the same time but it doesn't proc bonus attacks and you give up your offhand. Presumably it does scale more aggressively off of attack power and SoR's scaling damage component given the 2.0 base speed though.


Flurry Axe (using 200 Spell power) 40 SoR swings will grant you 800 damage + 40 flat 1600 damage = 2400 + Assuming 2% proc from Hands of Justice 2 times per minute (this i assume only) 120 damage = 2520 + 10% from Sanctity = 2772 damage

Sulfuras,Hand of Ragnaros (using 200 Spell power) 7 Command Procs will give you 406 damage by Spell Damage + 1820 damage by Weapon + (using Judge of command on cd) will grant you 1500 Damage from Fireball procs (can be higher but i don't know how much scales with sp) + (the damage return that we don't count) = 2826 + 10% from Sanctity = 3108 Damage.

This is used formula as Naked with only flurry axe + HoJ vs only Hands of Ragnaros and Consumes used for 200 SP.

Flurry Axe + Hands of Justice will do 90% of the damage that Sulfuras will produce over 1 minute.
Both was counted with 200 SP

Enjoy in the lesson for the bonuses when you compare SP damage for specific Seal and Weapon used.

And don't forget Crits are not counted, neither Attack Power or any other piece of gear that will contribute Command much more than SoR.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Aethelwulf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:51 pm

There are a couple of things you are neglecting. SoR gets 1.15x damage from talents, Flurry Axe typically has a 10% proc rate of an extra hit, and depending on mechanics SoR might be applying invisible hits (it did this during vanilla) which double up your chances to obtain Flurry and HoJ procs. Going with the 200 spelldmg for 20+20(flat) damage, you get 40 * 1.15 (imp SoR) = 46*1.1 (sanctity) = 50.6 * 40 = 2024 * 1.1 (flurry procs) = 2226.4 * 1.02 (HoJ) = 2270.928 damage over one minute. (If we have invisible hit mechanics, then it's 2024 * 1.2 * 1.04 = 2525.952 damage.) If we go for 200 spell damage and add another 140 because of a judgement of the crusader, then we get 3065,7528 damage not counting judgement of righteousness damage, and assuming no invisible hits.

You also appear to be squeezing 8 SoC procs into a 7 PPM and the SoC coefficient is only 20% for non-holy spell damage and I don't know why you're adding fireballs (and giving them a Sanctity multiplier to boot). I have no idea if you're including judgement of command damage or not either. We can do total DPS calculations, but that math will look different.

Anyway, the higher the spell damage goes, the more the math favors Flurry Axe.
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Dr. Doom » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:54 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:... depending on mechanics SoR might be applying invisible hits (it did this during vanilla) which double up your chances to obtain Flurry and HoJ procs. .


That part should be like this indeed, but it is bugged in the server.
I believe theo wrote on it:
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=3614
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Re: Why is Sulfuras better for other classes than for warrio

by Erou » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:55 pm

You all theorycraft too much over an RP item.
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