Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Taladril » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:36 am

Cardinalsin wrote:As I said before. For me, this conversation is over. As someone who has played Shaman since 1.4 don't even begin to QQ me over non-viable specs. If the devs want to change their minds on CF so be it, I really don't see any reason for them to do so.

Your argument now is with Elysium if they decide to maintain the previous stance that Nostalrius took. Pottu has taken the decision to shut down all discussion on this topic in this thread. If you want to convince him of your bona fides, then start a thread on Elysium over there.

Lol the la la la I don't want to hear it argument. Convincing. You guys show nothing but non professionalism. Proof has been found. Are you gonna fix it or not? If not then don't hide behind the shield of "it's ok guys cause rets aren't viable" cause that's just lame. And I'm not saying it for Theoloras's or Duki's benefit. We're all looking for accuracy here.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cardinalsin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:49 am

Like I said and will repeat one more time. For me, this conversation is over. Unless the devs change their minds, and in my opinion they won't, the matter rests. If you want to promote your argument then take it up with the devs in the Crestfall forums, you might be pleasantly surprised. We all know this is semantics, having your life's work threatened because of adverse opinion and a reasonable level of hard facts is bound to cause a strong reaction as can be seen by recent posts on this thread and other social media.

I have persistently said that I sympathise with Duki and other supporters and admire their enthusiasm, but there comes a point when even I exhaust my patience. That point is now. There is no point continuing this argument here, it's not going to make any difference. You need to start this on the Elysium forums if you have not done so already. Good luck.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by smilkovpetko » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:03 am

Cardinalsin wrote:Like I said and will repeat one more time. For me, this conversation is over. Unless the devs change their minds, and in my opinion they won't, the matter rests. If you want to promote your argument then take it up with the devs in the Crestfall forums, you might be pleasantly surprised.


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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cardinalsin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:17 am

Yes Duki. Because the argument at that point was based on what research was done on the client side from the original WoW DVD set. Case not proven. If you want to redress the issue again with fresh evidence you need to go back to the source.

Crestfall devs are really, really good. They really, really care about getting their realms right from the start. If you really believe you are correct, which you do of course, then take up the challenge again. But you'll need to bring your A-team with you and have your facts straight.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by smilkovpetko » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:43 pm

Cardinalsin wrote:Yes Duki. Because the argument at that point was based on what research was done on the client side from the original WoW DVD set. Case not proven. If you want to redress the issue again with fresh evidence you need to go back to the source.

Crestfall devs are really, really good. They really, really care about getting their realms right from the start. If you really believe you are correct, which you do of course, then take up the challenge again. But you'll need to bring your A-team with you and have your facts straight.


Cornholi wrote:I personally was never convinced that Holy resistance was set at anything other than 0, so I did some digging and found this:
https://youtu.be/7NagvKFLngU?list=LLbfL ... 90gQ&t=315
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16233 (warcraft movies link confirming it's actually from vanilla)

This is a pvp video from a Demo Lock PoV with a felhunter pet, the warlock has specced into Master Demonologist so it would give him and the pet 60 resistance to all.

Now according to the original thread on the CF forums and people in this thread, any buff that has a mask of 126 will give you resistance to everything including holy, which if you follow that logic includes Master Demonologist: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

So that's 60 resistance to the warlock and the pet which should according to their logic should include holy resistance, but as you see in the video none of the pallies' spells and attack were resisted at all, not even partially resisted, you can see for yourself as the warlock in the video has his combat log open. There were 2 duels in total in which the paladin got mutiple Seal of Command procs, Judgement of Command casts, Exorcism casts, HOJ and Repentance and none of them were resisted at all, not even partially.

I'd like to think that this proves that holy resistance for all intents and purposes does NOT exist, feel free to prove me wrong on this claim.


This is enough Evidence , nothing else i need to prove

I am not planning to go on such server at all , even if it happen to be most successful in the world , the attitude of Admins and the Racism issued by Indra (Crestfall Staff) is not acceptable and shows high unprofessional GM's .
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cardinalsin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:00 pm

The Crestfall information thread on the Nostalrius forums are not the place to be having these conversations. If you really believed in your thesis then you'd back it up by taking your arguments to the Crestfall forums. Using the racist tag as an excuse is untrue and irrelevant. As I've stated before, there are plenty of threads from you and others complaining about the state of paladins on Nostalrius. But you all still played there.

Now that you are going back to Nostalrius are you going to spam their forums with the same arguments? I posted before that the devs were happy to work on all the perceived paladin bugs on private servers and were happy to listen to you. The only exception was holy resistance. There's no point in having this argument with me here on this thread, you're wasting your time. I can't influence things.

My attitude to this whole debate is simplistic. Retribution paladins were not looked upon as a viable spec during vanilla wow for PvE. Retribution paladins are not looked upon as a viable spec on the private server scene for the same reasons. They are (not) working as intended.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Imbaslap » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:59 pm

smilkovpetko wrote:
Cardinalsin wrote:Yes Duki. Because the argument at that point was based on what research was done on the client side from the original WoW DVD set. Case not proven. If you want to redress the issue again with fresh evidence you need to go back to the source.

Crestfall devs are really, really good. They really, really care about getting their realms right from the start. If you really believe you are correct, which you do of course, then take up the challenge again. But you'll need to bring your A-team with you and have your facts straight.


Cornholi wrote:I personally was never convinced that Holy resistance was set at anything other than 0, so I did some digging and found this:
https://youtu.be/7NagvKFLngU?list=LLbfL ... 90gQ&t=315
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16233 (warcraft movies link confirming it's actually from vanilla)

This is a pvp video from a Demo Lock PoV with a felhunter pet, the warlock has specced into Master Demonologist so it would give him and the pet 60 resistance to all.

Now according to the original thread on the CF forums and people in this thread, any buff that has a mask of 126 will give you resistance to everything including holy, which if you follow that logic includes Master Demonologist: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

So that's 60 resistance to the warlock and the pet which should according to their logic should include holy resistance, but as you see in the video none of the pallies' spells and attack were resisted at all, not even partially resisted, you can see for yourself as the warlock in the video has his combat log open. There were 2 duels in total in which the paladin got mutiple Seal of Command procs, Judgement of Command casts, Exorcism casts, HOJ and Repentance and none of them were resisted at all, not even partially.

I'd like to think that this proves that holy resistance for all intents and purposes does NOT exist, feel free to prove me wrong on this claim.


This is enough Evidence , nothing else i need to prove

I am not planning to go on such server at all , even if it happen to be most successful in the world , the attitude of Admins and the Racism issued by Indra (Crestfall Staff) is not acceptable and shows high unprofessional GM's .

you do realize it was quite a few BL people that did some digging on the issue since nost was still alive (prismcharm hello)
without bugged prismcharm, noone would've known that player holy resist was busted on Nost (already fixed holy resist on stock CMANGOS)
which proved that holy resist was broken on Nost with a "broken" item. haha go figure eh? it took a bug to find a bug.
meanwhile, Nano kept shooting down all holy resist bug reports without doing proper research.
after more digging on CF staff with Darkrasp, we found more info based from QSW and how the client is giving holy resist via Mask 126(all resist schools including holy resist school 2).
so then we found that blizzard was lazy and did NOT do a client patch to revert those aura 126 to aura 124. instead, they were lazy and just did a server side overwrite for it across the board.
then Cornholi finally found tangible video evidence from 2006 (not 2008+ wotlk crap that everyone ratted on duki and theoloras about) to help reinforce it.

so yes.. Nost needs to take a look at Cmangos and do some more rewrites.
but hey.. dont forget the prismcharm either. ;)
if it wasnt for that item, holy resist would still be an issue on Nostlysium.

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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by smilkovpetko » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:25 pm

He got trigger when evidence was found :) , inb4 http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/inde ... mment=2517

imbaslap

the all resist affix from enchants and items that we see affect the player's holy resist in pvp. that we can confirm intentional by blizzard.


http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/inde ... mment=2632

imbaslap
but what we do know is that mod 126 is intended to affect holy resistance directly from the 1.12.1 client.. the ones we all have to send data to a server.

its not really a private server issue, but more of a client issue. Blizzard made tons of changes to clients from vanilla onward. so what you're seeing in the solo chromag video is probably on the wotlk client which is different.

as per the other abilities like Mage Armor that do mod 126 or items that give that mod 126 will affect holy resistance for the player wearing it.

now remember, this is all coming from the client we run for 1.12.1. so in regards to PVP, holy resist is apparently a thing.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Imbaslap » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:42 pm

well yes... it was intentional.. hence the aura 126?
do you know how to read?
its in the client bro..
the evidence shows that blizzard did have it intended back then.. but noone uncovered why they didnt change it until just now. (probably because they had it in for undead players getting hit with pally excorcise spells and crap)

there wasn't evidence showing what blizzard did though to make it seem like holy resist never existed.
so in part.. yes it was intended from the client and no it wasn't intended by blizzard. the problem was finding what they did server side since.. well.. we dont have blizzard's server side code.. (welcome to emulation buddy).
but hey.. atleast I know where to look.. take some notes Duki and maybe pally can finally not be shit on Elysium.
:P GL

TLDR, blizzard did a hack fix instead of a client patch to save time.
otherwise, the client would be filled with aura 124.. not 126.
so ofcourse people would interpret the client as credible since we dont have blizzard's server code.. (lol like be real dude)

now Duki and Theoloras can go on their crusade and bash realms that don't make this change now that we uncovered the truth behind blizzard's shady ways.
you're still welcomed. :)

*you can also thank Darkrasp and Cornholi+Buki for extra research.
but if you dont want to thank them.. its ok. we still know you appreciate the work on Making Pallies Great Again. 8-)
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Thatoneguy » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:13 pm

The big irony here is that Paladins will be in a better state on Crestfall.
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