Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cardinalsin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:15 am

This Holy Resistance meme is over. There is merit in your arguments, but your arguments are based on a 10 year campaign to make an nonviable spec playable. You have scoured the internet for years looking for any information to assist you and the net result of that is hearsay and anecdote.

The fact that the Crestfall devs and staff have looked into this in such a painstaking way is a credit to their attention to detail, but the net result is non-proven.

Can we please put this to rest, agree to disagree, and move on. Delete the non-relevant posts including this one, and just go our separate ways.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Theoloras » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:27 am

Cardinalsin wrote:This Holy Resistance meme is over. There is merit in your arguments, but your arguments are based on a 10 year campaign to make an nonviable spec playable. You have scoured the internet for years looking for any information to assist you and the net result of that is hearsay and anecdote.

The fact that the Crestfall devs and staff have looked into this in such a painstaking way is a credit to their attention to detail, but the net result is non-proven.

Can we please put this to rest, agree to disagree, and move on. Delete the non-relevant posts including this one, and just go our separate ways.


See, we were having a logical and respectful debate up until you posted this $hit and threw in the usual "nonviable spec" suspect and you wonder why we get pissed off at having the nerve to defend ourselves and the class we play...

My argument has nothing to do with either Ret or Prot specs but to help get as close to blizzlike as possible.

If you and Darkrasp in the end truly believe that the Mod Resistance Exclusive (126) = +Holy Resistance exists then that means that you are also claiming that Holy Resistance was a regular and everyday factor in PvP during retail Vanilla (resulting in countless partial resists from Holy school attacks) since both Mark of the Wild and Mage Armor have the exact same bit mask.

Mark of the Wild
Rank 7
445 mana
30 yd range
Instant
Increases the friendly target's armor by 285, all attributes by 12 and all resistances by 20 for 30 min.

Effect #3 (6) Apply Aura #143: Mod Resistance Exclusive (126)
Value: 20
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=9885

Mage Armor
Rank 3
490 mana
Instant
Increases your resistance to all magic by 15 and allows 30% of your mana regeneration to continue while casting. Only one type of Armor spell can be active on the Mage at any time. Lasts 30 min.

Effect #1 (6) Apply Aura #22: Mod Resistance (126)
Value: 15
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=22783

Is that what you are trying to say?
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cornholi » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:48 am

I personally was never convinced that Holy resistance was set at anything other than 0, so I did some digging and found this:
https://youtu.be/7NagvKFLngU?list=LLbfL ... 90gQ&t=315
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16233 (warcraft movies link confirming it's actually from vanilla)

This is a pvp video from a Demo Lock PoV with a felhunter pet, the warlock has specced into Master Demonologist so it would give him and the pet 60 resistance to all.

Now according to the original thread on the CF forums and people in this thread, any buff that has a mask of 126 will give you resistance to everything including holy, which if you follow that logic includes Master Demonologist: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

So that's 60 resistance to the warlock and the pet which should according to their logic should include holy resistance, but as you see in the video none of the pallies' spells and attack were resisted at all, not even partially resisted, you can see for yourself as the warlock in the video has his combat log open. There were 2 duels in total in which the paladin got mutiple Seal of Command procs, Judgement of Command casts, Exorcism casts, HOJ and Repentance and none of them were resisted at all, not even partially.

I'd like to think that this proves that holy resistance for all intents and purposes does NOT exist, feel free to prove me wrong on this claim.
Last edited by Cornholi on Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Theoloras » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:59 am

Cornholi wrote:I personally was never convinced that Holy resistance was set at anything other than 0, so I did some digging and found this:
https://youtu.be/7NagvKFLngU?list=LLbfL ... 90gQ&t=315
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16233 (warcraft movies link confirming it's actually from vanilla)

This is a pvp video from a Demo Lock PoV with a felhunter pet, the warlock has specced into Master Demonologist so it would give him and the pet 60 resistance to all.

Now according to the original thread on the CF forums and people in this thread, any buff that has a mask of 126 will give you resistance to everything including holy, which if you follow that logic includes Master Demonologist: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

So that's 60 resistance to the warlock and the pet which should according to their logic include holy resistance, but as you see in the video none of the pallies' spells and attack were resisted at all, not even partially resisted, you can see for yourself as the warlock in the video has his combat log open. There were 2 duels in total in which the paladin got mutiple Seal of Command procs, Judgement of Command casts, Exorcism casts, HOJ and Repentance and none of them were resisted at all, not even partially.

I'd like to think that this proves that holy resistance for all intents and purposes does NOT exist, feel free to prove me wrong on this claim.


Thank you for posting this - I had totally forgotten about Master Demonologist - and sure enough it also has the 126 Bit Mask to both the Warlock and their Felhunter pet:

Master Demonologist
Instant
Effect #1 (119) Apply Pet Aura (126) #22: Mod Resistance (126)
Value: 0
Radius: 100 yards
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

If the Warlock in the video posted did indeed have +60 Holy Resistance from the Master Demonologist talent then yes, he would likely have recorded some partial resists.

A class talent that could work potentially with the 126 Bit Mask however would be a Priest speccing into the Spell Warding talent given that it isn't a Resistance per say but a -dmg taken:

Spell Warding
Rank 5
Instant
Reduces all spell damage taken by 10%.
Effect #1 (6) Apply Aura #87: Mod Dmg % Taken (126)
Value: -10
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=27904

Or a Warrior switching to Defensive stance - it's Bit Mask is set to 127 however since it also includes physical:

Defensive Stance Passive
Instant
Decreases damage taken from all sources by 10%. Decreases damage caused by 10%.
Increases threat generated by 30%.

Effect #1 (6) Apply Aura #87: Mod Dmg % Taken (127)
Value: -10
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=7376

Again, those two examples are not resistances but flat -10% dmg modifiers.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by smilkovpetko » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:13 am

Cornholi wrote:I personally was never convinced that Holy resistance was set at anything other than 0, so I did some digging and found this:
https://youtu.be/7NagvKFLngU?list=LLbfL ... 90gQ&t=315
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16233 (warcraft movies link confirming it's actually from vanilla)

This is a pvp video from a Demo Lock PoV with a felhunter pet, the warlock has specced into Master Demonologist so it would give him and the pet 60 resistance to all.

Now according to the original thread on the CF forums and people in this thread, any buff that has a mask of 126 will give you resistance to everything including holy, which if you follow that logic includes Master Demonologist: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=23762

So that's 60 resistance to the warlock and the pet which should according to their logic include holy resistance, but as you see in the video none of the pallies' spells and attack were resisted at all, not even partially resisted, you can see for yourself as the warlock in the video has his combat log open. There were 2 duels in total in which the paladin got mutiple Seal of Command procs, Judgement of Command casts, Exorcism casts, HOJ and Repentance and none of them were resisted at all, not even partially.

I'd like to think that this proves that holy resistance for all intents and purposes does NOT exist, feel free to prove me wrong on this claim.

According to Archives regarding Non Binary and Binary Spells which you mention 60 Resistance to all.

Paladin should have 1% chance to full Resist to Seal of Command, 6% chance to Partial resist 75% of Damage , 24% chance to partial resist 50% of the damage , 49% chance to partial resist 25% of the damage and only 20% chance to not resist.

In the Video you clearly shown that this ^ doesn't happen at all , no partial resists and no full resists.

Very neat dude , i hope Darkrasp fanboys will read this, send him this message and Holy Resistance discussion will end up right here ^ .

Good job and thanks for bringing this Evidence up <3 .
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cornholi » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:38 am

By the way there's no malicious intent in my earlier post, I fully believe in what CF team is trying to do, I personally just want CF to be the best server it can possibly be and I believe these type of changes help towards that goal. As I said earlier, if there's potentially anything wrong with my post feel free to call it out.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Taladril » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:02 am

I got roped into this discussion. I'm not sure how this is even a discussion conversation. Holy resist should not be affected by things like MotW. Yes it may exist somewhere in the ether. Probably because it existed in the past. Holy resist is a special resist in its own category. It is set to a default 0 for all mobs and all people. Spells do not affect it. I think there used to be like 1 or 2 items that had a holy resist way back in the day but that got changed when they removed holy from the MAIN CORE SET OF RESISTANCES. Holy is separate and should not be considered tied to the main list. Do you guys remember vanilla at all? Obviously not.
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Theoloras » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:04 am

Taladril wrote:I got roped into this discussion. I'm not sure how this is even a discussion conversation. Holy resist should not be affected by things like MotW. Yes it may exist somewhere in the ether. Probably because it existed in the past. Holy resist is a special resist in its own category. It is set to a default 0 for all mobs and all people. Spells do not affect it. I think there used to be like 1 or 2 items that had a holy resist way back in the day but that got changed when they removed holy from the MAIN CORE SET OF RESISTANCES. Holy is separate and should not be considered tied to the main list. Do you guys remember vanilla at all? Obviously not.


I want to give you a big fat wet kiss for posting this Taladril - bet you never thought this day would ever come!

:P
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Taladril » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:10 am

Please contain yourself. lol
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Re: Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

by Cardinalsin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:25 am

As I said before. For me, this conversation is over. As someone who has played Shaman since 1.4 don't even begin to QQ me over non-viable specs. If the devs want to change their minds on CF so be it, I really don't see any reason for them to do so.

Your argument now is with Elysium if they decide to maintain the previous stance that Nostalrius took. Pottu has taken the decision to shut down all discussion on this topic in this thread. If you want to convince him of your bona fides, then start a thread on Elysium over there.
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