Legion not so good after all

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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Syff » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:24 pm

Lokrosh wrote:
Syff wrote:Same here, un-subbed after 3 weeks

Could you describe the experience?


I enjoyed the levelling experience (although levelling up goes way too fast, but meh that's how it is nowadays).
End game content is fun at first (Suramar and dungeons) but later on it turns into a big grind.
I have no plans/time to go into raiding nor do I feel the need to constantly do PVP.
Besides that I really don't like the artifact weapon (legendary hur hur), it removes a part of the game which I always enjoyed, collecting a new weapons with better stats and a different look.

Also the follower element is still lame.

To summarise it : Leveling experience was fun, endgame gets boring if you're not fully invested info raiding/pvp. Also it's really alt-unfriendly due to the artifact weapon and rep for finishing the main quest
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Lokrosh » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:32 pm

Syff wrote:
Lokrosh wrote:
Syff wrote:Same here, un-subbed after 3 weeks

Could you describe the experience?


I enjoyed the levelling experience (although levelling up goes way too fast, but meh that's how it is nowadays).
End game content is fun at first (Suramar and dungeons) but later on it turns into a big grind.
I have no plans/time to go into raiding nor do I feel the need to constantly do PVP.
Besides that I really don't like the artifact weapon (legendary hur hur), it removes a part of the game which I always enjoyed, collecting a new weapons with better stats and a different look.

Also the follower element is still lame.

To summarise it : Leveling experience was fun, endgame gets boring if you're not fully invested info raiding/pvp. Also it's really alt-unfriendly due to the artifact weapon and rep for finishing the main quest


Sounds a bit like WoD to me. Seems like all the hype was uncalled for. Let's hope it burns before blizzcon and Blizzard goes with legacy.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by melak » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:18 am

Syff wrote:
Lokrosh wrote:
Syff wrote:Same here, un-subbed after 3 weeks

Could you describe the experience?


I enjoyed the levelling experience (although levelling up goes way too fast, but meh that's how it is nowadays).
End game content is fun at first (Suramar and dungeons) but later on it turns into a big grind.
I have no plans/time to go into raiding nor do I feel the need to constantly do PVP.
Besides that I really don't like the artifact weapon (legendary hur hur), it removes a part of the game which I always enjoyed, collecting a new weapons with better stats and a different look.

Also the follower element is still lame.

To summarise it : Leveling experience was fun, endgame gets boring if you're not fully invested info raiding/pvp. Also it's really alt-unfriendly due to the artifact weapon and rep for finishing the main quest


Humm really? I dont think i would enjoy leveling in legion due to the fact that everything scales to your level which i think is super lame in an mmorpg :mrgreen:
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by nsgaming » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:50 am

I'll throw my two cents in on the current state of retail...

Let me preface what I'm about to say that I've been a huge supporter of Legacy servers, even before all the hubbub from Nostalrius. And I've taken a lot of flak over the years from the General Discussion forums over the years by putting my stance on the issue out there, it's amazing how polarizing the Live community has become in the wake of Nostalrius.

Having said that, knowing full well what I was about to put myself through, I knew I wasn't going to like Legion. But part of me wanted to be able to say, and legitimately so, that I gave it a try. I didn't want to blast Legion without having actually played it, so I did. It's interesting to me what I did find enjoyable, vs. what I didn't find enjoyable.

I'm a lore fan, I love the story of Warcraft, it's easily my top favorite fantasy concept brought to life in video game form. Warcraft has always left a lot of doors open, but the information always seemed to be there. All the content created for World of Warcraft, up until, well, you could arguable say up to Cataclysm, was pretty much set in stone. That is the ideas and concepts about what was going on was previous established cannon.

The big switch to the world of Cataclysm was that this was the first expansion to really start treading new ground, Blizzard scrapped all their old content, rebuilt it from the ground up - which required God knows how many man hours to accomplish, what made Cataclysm such a tragedy though was how quickly you were suddenly leveling through the content. This is the first expansion to really say, "Ah, screw it, just let them blast through the content, it's not relevant anyways.", this was the first expansion to truly dumb down difficulty across the board.

Up until Cataclysm, most of the lore was stashed in these little books scattered around the world. I used to seek these things out and sit there and spend 10-15 minutes reading them. I didn't get an achievement for clicking on them, I didn't get experience or a reward for reading all of them, I just found them amazing little reads stashed throughout the game. That little bit of discovery was really all I needed.

I'm digressing just a little bit, but I think this is an important thing to say. These little books and occasional lines of dialogue really shaped and established an amazing and brilliantly designed world. Now we have cut scenes, everywhere, ad nauseum. Cut scenes are expensive to produce, they require a lot of time and effort, and either a small or in some cases a large group of people to be involved to make them. They should be reserved for monumental events, or critical lore moments. Now they're everywhere.

It's amazing to me how much lore is crammed into both World of Warcraft and World of Warcraft: Legion comparatively, and yet I feel that World of Warcraft genuinely felt like it had more lore to explore.

Lore is a very big part of Legion. It's amazing how much stuff happens in the game, just within the first 30-45 minutes of starting the expansion. I'd spoiler this, but who gives a damn, honestly - Tyrion dies, Vol'jin dies, Sylvanis becomes the new Warchief (Seriously?), Anduinn becomes the new king of Stormwind. So much stuff happens in the beginning of the game that I was kind of left wondering, "Okay, so what happens in the game then?"

So after I completed this clusterf&^k of an opening scenario, I was unceremoniously plopped into New Dalaran, because Blizzard realized how badly players needed a place to call home in the expansion that doesn't preclude them from ever interacting with one another, so Dalaran was whisked away to their new designated location after getting attacked by space demons. (Seriously, ships appear in the sky and shoot fel fire at the city, neat, but a little over the top)

The lore of the game felt ham-fisted, over the top, and really shoved hard down players throats. This wasn't all bad, but I felt like 2-3 expansions worth of lore happened in the first hour or two of gameplay. Too much, too soon.



Moving on to the gameplay... WoW sure has changed a lot. It's amazing how an RPG that was rooted in RPGs of years past that structured the gameplay around concepts and ideas that have truly stood the test of time, has tried so hard for so long to needlessly re-invent the wheel. We used to have character sheets with relevant information to help us understand how characters fared against one another. Now when you open the character sheet you're basically given 3 stats. Your crit chance, your item level, and basically how much of your main stat you have.

Pruning has become such a mainstay of how they do everything in the game now that I'm amazed how little of the game still actually exists. Every class has been neatly tucked into this 4-5 ability rotation that feels stale and uninteresting within minutes of starting. Be prepared to hammer your keyboard to death, because everything is on these tight little cooldowns that fit neatly into your prescribed rotation.

Pruning has infected World of Warcraft like a cancer that has spread to every facet of the game. Stats on equipment are 'hot swappable'. This isn't a new feature, but it's just a stark reminder of just how little the game really expects from it's players. It's interesting how much pruning they put into the game, and yet players are now pushing 3-4 million HP in the retail version of the game.

Because of the shorter rotation cycles and specific cooldowns they want to use, combat feels tiresome and stale very quickly. And it feels very unrewarding. Combat is over in seconds, win or lose, and is so short lived and un-engaging that I felt it was almost on par with an arcade game, there's so much shit going on on-screen, the graphics for some of the attacks sometimes make it hard to tell just what the hell is even going on.


Let's get into Legendaries... Sooo.... This is a thing now. The mighty champions of Azeroth have all decided to take a vacation on the eve of what is surely the end of all of Azeroth so that new champions can take their place. Guess what? You're so important to the lore of Warcraft that you ARE THE CHAMPION! There is no one more qualified in the World of Warcraft to take up the mantle of wielder of the Ashbringer, wielder of Doomhammer, etc. I have a problem with all of this.

It's nice to see class quests brought back to some light, I just have an issue with how it's gated, once again by a time-lock mechanism in that they make you wait several days before I can progress through the story. Plus there's legendaries abound by doing various in-game things that needlessly reward you with additional legendaries.

Weapons are a huge, very impactful aspect of any RPG. Now they're trivialized, everyone gets one, and you're the star of the show.


Let's talk about the world a bit. The world is beautiful, my hats off to the art team. But there's some glaring issues... There's so much crap in the world, that I often find my character getting stuck on things on the ground. And when your game feels less of an RPG and more like an arcade game, clipping terrain or rocks on the ground, or making my character start running in place because they got stuck for some reason or another seems amateurish at best on the development side of things.

There's no flying, this is a huge plus, I always felt like flying was a bad idea when it was announced that we'd have flying in Burning Crusade. I think it was handled best in Burning Crusade, because damn was it slow, and hot damn was it EXPENSIVE. But I never felt like I *had* to have it. Sure there were dungeons out there and raids that would require me to fly in, and hell, who doesn't want to skip past wave after wave of angry mob trying to get to my next quest hub, but when I got it, damn did it feel earned.

It's a kick in the teeth though that they opted for what is easily the most cop out thing they could do -which is give players a whistle that teleports them to the nearest flightmaster with an all of 5 minute cooldown that you can use whenever the feeling hits you in the new continent. One could argue that this is the best of both worlds, but again it cheapens what should be a grand exploration and is just as damaging to a player's perspective of the world when they can easily find themselves free of any bad situation they find themselves in.


Last thing I'll bring up are professions. They did something interesting and different with professions, I'm very mixed on it, and don't feel the sense of reward that I feel when I was playing Vanilla or Nostalrius, and that is the earning of one's own ability to do something. There's something to be said about those poor people who took the time to make 20 of half the stuff they could make for the professions just to max them out. Maxing out a profession took a lot of work, patience, and a lot of effort on a player to garner the resources necessary to make it happen, but when you did it it really unlocked a lot of doors for you.

Now recipes are earned through a number of time-gated events, quest chains that might pop up here and there, and frankly, aren't challenging or difficult. They don't ask much of you as a player, and really only serve to reduce the cost of what you're making, not increasing the stats of or otherwise improving the result of your efforts. You get to make the same things with less stuff.


All in all, I just don't care about anything in this expansion. It's not the kind of game I want to play. What I've always wanted and yearned for for several expansions now, is an MMO that I enjoy with content that I can really sink my teeth into. If Vanilla WoW was a mid-rare T-bone that was delicious albeit bad for me in terms of how much time I'd waste on it, the current state of retail is like eating a rice cake. It looks okay on the outside, but after that first bite you realize just how unsatisfying it really is, and you can either continue munching away or come to the realization that I did that this game doesn't have any grit, and ultimately fails to fulfill that community-based MMO feel that drew it to you in the first place.



P.S. - Sorry for the wall of text.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Docholy » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Great post and it sums up well the issues with Legion. With the game going to a once a year expac its only going to get worse.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Crixalis » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:22 pm

Interesting wall of text.
At the start i found legion to be a good expansion atleast compared to wod but after the first week i cleared myths with my friends i felt unsatisfied. Just as you said, nothing of interest in the game. The gear feels unmeaningful, just an updated itemlevel, a few numbers better here and there. I did the new raid on release day and knew it was the last time i am going to enter that dungeon, i just dont have a reason to continue playing it.
While some of my friends like vanilla, and 4 of them have leveled on Nost, I somehow am the only one who is turned off legion already.
But after all i didnt expect anything different. Atleast a new wow expansion brings our group of friends together for 1-2 months of the start of the addon and we have fun.
I for myself know I want to play vanilla and will return to it nevertheless, it was just my little retail vacation :D
Lets see what Nostalrius is up to with their announcement, i am not counting on Blizz releasing legacy nor do i want them to, to be honest.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Killershama » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:04 am

Legion is an "ok" expansion its not the greatest, I have tried it myself, its ok. I will say its all ready better than WoD. But if Blizzard announced legacy servers, I would immediately return to legacy 100%. Legion really can't keep me hooked. I can say they at least tried to get older players to come back, but its not really the same game. And the community is still not the same.

What I really hate is that you don't need to be in a group to kill mobs. what do I mean by this? They made it while out in the world questing you don't need to be in a group for literally anything because every single mob tag is shareable. Which might seem all fine, but when it comes back to the elite quests (they tried to resurrect) you don't need to be in a group for them because again every enemy tag is shareable. Basically killing the socialization aspect between players

Also I can't get myself into Mythic+ dungeons, I don't feel really motivated to do them, and does not seem very appealing, its just like Diablo.

I Also hate as well as others, the large HP/Mana numbers. Its really stupid to look at....seriously. People just say "A number is just a number"....No its not lol. Its a very large complex number, and with them you can see a struggle with the number balancing with abilities across all the classes. The balancing is all out of wack.

However Nostalrius's announcement pulled me in, especially the last sentences...

"As a consequence, if Blizzard doesn't make an announcement to honour their own core values, be sure that we will."

That is what pulled me in...I Wonder what will happen if Blizzard does not announce legacy. I am sure that Blizzard is aware of that post now, and has probably got them wondering too.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Lokrosh » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:03 am

Thx for the detailed explanation nsgaming! It basically confirms all the fears i had for Legion. The meager pros definitely do not outweigh the cons. It's a shame how they completely changed such a good and addictive game into something so extremely boring.

It's a testament to how good old WoW was when so many people STILL want to play it, after probably having done most content in it multiple times.
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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Lokrosh » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:18 am

Here's another selection of current threads from the official WoW forum. People are bored and annoyed to bits with this expansion.

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Re: Legion not so good after all

by Arx_1 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:19 pm

I don't understand how it is possible that people have still not realized that WoW is dead and buried and that Retail is essentially a dead game addressed to children and teenagers.

IMO, WoW died with Arthas.

Of course I didn't buy Legion as I am not stupid. I find it surprising that so many people did.

Hopefully the guys at Blizzard will give us legacy servers. After having done so much Vanilla, I want to play TBC again in a Blizzard server.
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