Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Cardinalsin » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:40 am

Greets.

So we have the usual late Monday update from Darkrasp here:

http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/index.php?/topic/1187-darkrasps-update-11212016/

The really interesting part is Mr Marmite Imbaslap had been given a task that was deemed important but relatively trivial to research - mob and boss immunities. Turns out it's not so trivial. 5 weeks later they now have school and mechanic immunities for 323 separate units.

All from 2005/2006 research. This is a pretty substantive piece of work and the community owes a big up to Imbaslap for dedication to duty.

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This will be a significant contribution in ensuring the raids are as accurate and as hard as possible. Meaning the AQ40 and Naxx will hopefully be a proper and complete test to any guild that fancies itself as ''elite''
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Ourk » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:28 pm

Crestfall Developer wrote:Q. First thing's first. Pay to win?

A. No. No purchased levels, skills, gold, or items. We reserve the right to change our minds if it's a matter of keeping the servers online post-launch, but our intention is not to have any pay to win system of any kind. That said, the server will need to generate some money to cover expenses. We'll pay most out of pocket, but player contribution is appreciated. To that end, it is likely that we will have an item shop involving vanity items you cannot get in-game, such as TCG rewards, Blizzcon/Collectors Edition Pets, armorless mount skins (provided you already own the original version) etc. We are also considering (just as ideas) things like Gold Memberships which allow players to skip any login queue and have increased developer access, name changes, PvE<->PvP realm transfers, etc. Nothing that will affect your gameplay experience, but hopefully appealing enough to drum up sufficient financing for the server.


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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Wolfrig » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:12 pm

Ourk wrote:
Crestfall Developer wrote:Q. First thing's first. Pay to win?

A. No. No purchased levels, skills, gold, or items. We reserve the right to change our minds if it's a matter of keeping the servers online post-launch, but our intention is not to have any pay to win system of any kind. That said, the server will need to generate some money to cover expenses. We'll pay most out of pocket, but player contribution is appreciated. To that end, it is likely that we will have an item shop involving vanity items you cannot get in-game, such as TCG rewards, Blizzcon/Collectors Edition Pets, armorless mount skins (provided you already own the original version) etc. We are also considering (just as ideas) things like Gold Memberships which allow players to skip any login queue and have increased developer access, name changes, PvE<->PvP realm transfers, etc. Nothing that will affect your gameplay experience, but hopefully appealing enough to drum up sufficient financing for the server.


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http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/inde ... questions/


What is your issue here? They have stated that there will be no p2w, the only things one could get from donation are shit like special non-combat pets and such things, nothing that will affect the gameplay. And they would only do it in order to get the money to keep the server running, cause you know, this ain't free.

You highlighten only parts of the post that make it sound like they will be selling items actually affecting the game, like tier sets and shit.
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Sallerius » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:14 pm

Ourk wrote:
Crestfall Developer wrote:Q. First thing's first. Pay to win?

A. No. No purchased levels, skills, gold, or items. We reserve the right to change our minds if it's a matter of keeping the servers online post-launch, but our intention is not to have any pay to win system of any kind. That said, the server will need to generate some money to cover expenses. We'll pay most out of pocket, but player contribution is appreciated. To that end, it is likely that we will have an item shop involving vanity items you cannot get in-game, such as TCG rewards, Blizzcon/Collectors Edition Pets, armorless mount skins (provided you already own the original version) etc. We are also considering[color=#FF0000] (just as ideas) things like Gold Memberships which allow players to skip any login queue and have increased developer access, name changes, PvE<->PvP realm transfers, etc.[/color] Nothing that will affect your gameplay experience, but hopefully appealing enough to drum up sufficient financing for the server.


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http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/inde ... questions/
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Ourk » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:37 pm

Wolfrig wrote:
What is your issue here?

No issue here.

Only my personal taste.


I prefer a server that does not offers:

- pay to ninja, harass, insult, grief, etc. / name changes
- pay to hurt community sense / name changes
- pay to hurt community sense / PvE<->PvP realm transfers
- etc.

... because of these and because we all know it will be only the begining of pay to [insert what you want] introduction facilities.


Besides, can we express in this thread a different opinion about CF or will we be censored immediately by the fans like on Kronos forums?
Last edited by Ourk on Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by BraBoyz » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:43 pm

Don't want to ruin all your hopes Crestfall fanboys but... but Crestfall's gonna be a Kronos 2.0 a bit more evolved.

Not P2W ? Maybe but paying for cosmetics, transfers, etc is still garbage.

Kronos tried to challenge Nost, it died.
Crestfall will try to challenge Nost, it will die. It's as simple as 1+1, don't expect anything else.
The only hope for Crestfall is another Nost shutdown so they can welcome all the refugees and the leftovers.

Deal with it, have fun though.
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Cardinalsin » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:35 am

It's a very common misconception that Crestfall is challenging other emulators in terms of replicating the same experience and offering the same product. It is not. All the emulators as mentioned (Kronos, Elysium, Nostalrius) work off a MaNGOS or CMaNGOS core. They share the same bugs and flaws on start up and then proceed to fix the bugs and scripting as best they can interdependent on each other.

If they all cooperated together and shared their bug fixes then MaNGOS would the definitive vanilla client. But they don't. So each of them get their product up to a decent standard but as all of you will have noticed, it's far from perfect.

The combination of Elysium and Nostalrius bug-fixing should bring about a superior product, especially if they retain what seems to be a decent pool of staff. Unfortunately, and in my opinion, there will remain a number of issues that can't or won't be resolved. It would be rude to discuss this on the Nostalrius forums so we'll just reiterate the positives about Crestfall once again..

1. CF will use its own core emulator based on a Summit/Trinity hybrid. But a huge amount of work has been put in to get the core right. That's important to point out because unlike with MaNGOS they haven't gone about taking somebody else's mostly finished product and fixed things as they went along (that is, after release). They know their core, they know what fixes have been applied. In MaNGOS, you have hundreds of fixes by hundreds of different people, some good, and some bad....

2. The max population on any server will be ~6000. There was a hell of a lot of grief over this because people think that having 10,000 players on any one time is a good thing. Clearly these people never played vanilla wow where populations were capped at 2500. More importantly, the entire game was based on those kinds of populations. The limits may have been set in place owing to 'broadband' speeds and graphic cards in 2004, but that also defined things like the economy, spawn rates, PvP, quest hubs, reputation and pretty much everything that makes vanilla, vanilla. The CF perspective is that if the demand is there, then they will just launch more realms, just like Blizzard did. Now if you like population max servers and don't want to be on one with a limit of 6000 then that's fine. It's called choice.

3. Ban on VPN connections. So there are still issues to be resolved here before launch because it has some unforeseen circumstances. But essentially, this is a method to reduce the amount of gold farming as much as possible. People have indicated that this is anti-Chinese. Well it's not, because on the table for some months now CF has offered that community their own, VPN accessible realm if the demand is there. Chinese gamers are really good, they love their warcraft (as the movie sales testify), but it doesn't work on realms where all standard communication is in English. The unfortunate side-effect is the gold farming and selling. If this is/was an issue for you, as well as multi-boxing, exploits of bugs etc, then Crestfall gives you that alternative.

4. Launch PvE and PvP realms at the same time. PvP is a no-brainer. PvE never gets the love being the ugly second cousin. Well, there's a very large PvE community out there. A lot of them would like the idea of a fresh PvE server. Because these people tend to focus on details, they notice the bugs and bad scripting more than most. So not only do they get their very own realm, but they get one that should appeal to their immersive and particular tastes. This also makes it ideal for those that like RP'ing. As for the PvP realm, we now for the first time have a genuine competition for server firsts. Who is better at PvE in raid content? PvP or carebears? With the both realms launched at the same time, we can put that argument to bed once and for all.

5. Progression Through Expansions (PTE). Whereas PS (private server) vanilla is about 80% there in terms of the finished article (we'll rely on CF to raise the bar), PS TBC is not in a great state. All the vanilla servers have talked about progressing to TBC at some stage but this is next to impossible using a MaNGOS core as the current state of PS TBC proves. Crestfall was developed specifically to enable progression because they wrote their own core. So imagine this, you play on a vanilla server that is adequately scripted, has a good population, and end game content is so-so. 18 months go by. Now what do you do? Well, you can choose to stay there, or you can go to another fresh vanilla server and repeat the same process, that you've already done before many, many times.

Or you could play on Crestfall, keeping the same characters, friends, enemies, guildmates and resources for years and years, dropping off at the expansion of your choice.

Crestfall is not offering the same product as other vanilla emulators, because it's not a vanilla emulator. It's an emulator of World of Warcraft, starting in vanilla and progressing through to TBC, WotLK and then by popular demand.

We don't want to compete against Nostalrius, because with the greatest respect, we don't want the fanboise who jumped from Kronos to Nostalrius, then jumped to Kronos, then jumped to Kronos II, then jumped to Elysium, then jumped to Nost again. We don't want realm-hoppers. We want committed, intelligent, mature players who have tried these servers and now expect more in terms of quality. Players who want to progress through to TBC and beyond. Players who can offer constructive criticism and work with a community with a common goal.

If this sounds like you well:http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Ourk » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:15 pm

Cardinalsin wrote:Unfortunately, and in my opinion, there will remain a number of issues that can't or won't be resolved.

Hello Cardinalsin,

Open-minded, i would want to know:

a) 2 or 3 of these issues that can't be resolved on a MaNGOS vanilla client emulator?

b) 2 or 3 features/things that differ (only in regard of gameplay, i dont care about technical stuff) between a MaNGOS vanilla client emulator and an Ascent/Summit TBC emulator that has been reverse engineered into Vanilla.
(Not some features that have been announced and/or are yet hypothetical but things that are current.)

TY
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Cardinalsin » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:35 pm

Hello Ourk,

Thanks for your considered response. The 2-3 issues I'm referring to in that quote are not MaNGOS but Nostalrius related. In other words, there are issues with the Nostalrius realms prior to the shutdown that from my perspective are fatal flaws. It's possible that with the new/old versions being released that these issues will be addressed. We won't really know until the realms are launched. I think it would be unfair on Nostalrius/Elysium to go into any detail until well after launch date when we'll know for certain.

The simple differences between what CF is doing and all other MaNGOS emulators is that the developers have engineered the core themselves. In doing so, they've built the core with the aim of ensuring progression through expansion is as straightforward as possible. It also means they can put in clustering. Clustering allows you to run various processes from different machines. So for example, if some bug crashed a raid in Eastern Kingdoms it won't bring the entire realm down, Kalimdor would continue to function and any non-associated part. If you have an emergency and need to fix a critical issue, clustering allows you to isolate the downtime so it can be fixed good and proper and not patched up until it breaks down again.

Now you can do this theoretically on a MaNGOS server too but it wasn't really designed that way as I understand it. So you have to make pretty massive changes to the emulator and hope it works without causing huge issues. Nostalrius was working on clustering before the shutdown so you can see that it's pretty important to having stable realms.

Having said all that. If CF launches and it doesn't have MaNGOS bugs but has a whole heap of others, then it deserves to be flamed and ridiculed. But this is the reason why we don't expect server launch until Q2 2017. With Nost back there is no rush. Plenty of time to ensure it's working 95% to expectations.
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Re: Crestfall - New Vanilla PTE Server - Release 2017

by Ourk » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:34 pm

Hello Cardinalsin,

I appreciate the moderate and peaceful tone.

Cardinalsin wrote:The 2-3 issues I'm referring to in that quote are not MaNGOS but Nostalrius related. (...) It's possible that with the new/old versions being released that these issues will be addressed. We won't really know until the realms are launched. I think it would be unfair on Nostalrius/Elysium to go into any detail until well after launch date when we'll know for certain.

Ok, so. Are these issues mysterious or is Nost team aware of them?

Cardinalsin wrote:The simple differences between what CF is doing and all other MaNGOS emulators is that the developers have engineered the core themselves. In doing so, they've built the core with the aim of ensuring progression through expansion is as straightforward as possible.

Nostalrius TBC Project:
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=37277

Cardinalsin wrote:It also means they can put in clustering. (...) Nostalrius was working on clustering before the shutdown so you can see that it's pretty important to having stable realms.

Clustering technology for the two servers, sweet!

ATM, at least "on paper", i can't see some big difference(s) between the two servers. ;)

TYVM for your answer and feel free to continue to enlight me... ;)
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