Why isn't Dual-wield Dagger Fury a thing?

[St0rfan]

I'm getting Ironsides flashbacks here. Anyone who played on ED will know what I'm talking about:)

[Armilus]

I'm talking about cleave yet you give HS as a main example. Yes HS DPR goes up however cleave works the opposite way. BTW, feel free to have a look at my overhauled DPR formulas, the original sheet was blatantly incomplete in most regards (and it's still a work in progress on many fronts).

Sure you can land more in a given amount of time, however that's irrelevant since the RPS cleave spam requires is unobtainable for practically any 1h speed. (im talkin full world buff, naxx gear and rend buff which isn't game and even then it's not even close to sustainable apart from perhaps some raid mechanics)

It seems to be a common misconception that fast weapons give more flurry uptime. It's actually the opposite though. Think of your BT/WW/OP as flurry generators, with a fast weapon you will much more quickly use up these flurry procs that you're being fed which leads to lower flurry uptime.

[The following comments pertain only to ALLIANCE]

Weapons speed has a FAR smaller impact on flurry than most people make it out to be. Yes, slower weapons are SLIGHTLY better for damage from flurry but if you stick with dal'rends when you could have perditions blade and core hound tooth (or even distracting dagger) you are a dumb ass.

If your guild is in to distributing loot based on what is best for the raid, then any dwarf, gnome or nightelf DPS warriors that you have in your raid (just because they are someones friend or whatever) should get daggers first. When the server was first launched it made sense to have a couple dagger rogues since 1h swords weren't that available but at this point every rogue should at least have vis'kag MH and Hakkari warblade OH.

DPS is the most important stat on fury weapons by far.

Edit: I would go crul MH, Doom's Edge OH over daggers pre-AQ btw. But if daggers like dragonfang and perdition's are rotting and you aren't getting crul any time soon...

[The following comments pertain only to HORDE]

Dagger too fast. Slow MH, windfury. Play orc.

Zug zug.

I'm getting Ironsides flashbacks here. Anyone who played on ED will know what I'm talking about:)

Ironsides was a beast. If he had access to crul I don't think he would have gone daggers but it was rumored that AQ was 'coming soon' (this was about 2 years before it actually came out) so he decided to go daggers because he would have been first in line for death's sting (we had no dagger rogues).

Also, there aren't any 1 handers in AQ for fury warriors. Honestly death's string + pugio is probably an upgrade even for human warriors.

[St0rfan]

I'm talking about cleave yet you give HS as a main example. Yes HS DPR goes up however cleave works the opposite way. BTW, feel free to have a look at my overhauled DPR formulas, the original sheet was blatantly incomplete in most regards (and it's still a work in progress on many fronts).

Sure you can land more in a given amount of time, however that's irrelevant since the RPS cleave spam requires is unobtainable for practically any 1h speed. (im talkin full world buff, naxx gear and rend buff which isn't game and even then it's not even close to sustainable apart from perhaps some raid mechanics)

It seems to be a common misconception that fast weapons give more flurry uptime. It's actually the opposite though. Think of your BT/WW/OP as flurry generators, with a fast weapon you will much more quickly use up these flurry procs that you're being fed which leads to lower flurry uptime.

[The following comments pertain only to ALLIANCE]

Weapons speed has a FAR smaller impact on flurry than most people make it out to be. Yes, slower weapons are SLIGHTLY better for damage from flurry but if you stick with dal'rends when you could have perditions blade and core hound tooth (or even distracting dagger) you are a dumb ass.

If your guild is in to distributing loot based on what is best for the raid, then any dwarf, gnome or nightelf DPS warriors that you have in your raid (just because they are someones friend or whatever) should get daggers first. When the server was first launched it made sense to have a couple dagger rogues since 1h swords weren't that available but at this point every rogue should at least have vis'kag MH and Hakkari warblade OH.

DPS is the most important stat on fury weapons by far.

Edit: I would go crul MH, Doom's Edge OH over daggers pre-AQ btw. But if daggers like dragonfang and perdition's are rotting and you aren't getting crul any time soon...

[The following comments pertain only to HORDE]

Dagger too fast. Slow MH, windfury. Play orc.

Zug zug.

I'm getting Ironsides flashbacks here. Anyone who played on ED will know what I'm talking about:)

Ironsides was a beast. If he had access to crul I don't think he would have gone daggers but it was rumored that AQ was 'coming soon' (this was about 2 years before it actually came out) so he decided to go daggers because he would have been first in line for death's sting (we had no dagger rogues).

Also, there aren't any 1 handers in AQ for fury warriors. Honestly death's string + pugio is probably an upgrade even for human warriors.

Yeah, I spoke with him numerous times in my afk sessions in IF. When it comes to AQ40 weapons you are indeed correct for the most part. I never upgraded my weapons in there but kept rotating my cts/viskag/crul/ironfoe mainly because the 2.8 speed sword in there is so damn uggly, and I was hoping for Anubisath Warhammer to pair up with my Ironfoe.

[taxoro]

Well if you are not human/orc then sure it's just as good as axes. Only issue is that sharing loot is important for progress so stealing perdition blade and corehound tooth probably won't make your rogues happy...

About the WW/cleave/HS: It will be a decease in dps on whirlwind and cleave but an increase in HS. I don't consider cleave a common spell, so it's a battle between WW and HS, and from what I can see it goes kinda even.

About unbridled wrath.. Yeah it's a slight buff but honestly we're talking.. 4-5 rage per minute.

Lastly it will have a negative effect on flurry procs. More attacks means more chances to crit yes, but it also means more flurry procs to be taken. However with slow weapons you also have crits from WW and bloodthirst, which means flurry will be stronger with slow weapons.

TL;DR It works if you have the gear, but you probably shouldn't steal it from rogues.

[St0rfan]

Well if you are not human/orc then sure it's just as good as axes. Only issue is that sharing loot is important for progress so stealing perdition blade and corehound tooth probably won't make your rogues happy...

About the WW/cleave/HS: It will be a decease in dps on whirlwind and cleave but an increase in HS. I don't consider cleave a common spell, so it's a battle between WW and HS, and from what I can see it goes kinda even.

About unbridled wrath.. Yeah it's a slight buff but honestly we're talking.. 4-5 rage per minute.

Lastly it will have a negative effect on flurry procs. More attacks means more chances to crit yes, but it also means more flurry procs to be taken. However with slow weapons you also have crits from WW and bloodthirst, which means flurry will be stronger with slow weapons.

TL;DR It works if you have the gear, but you probably shouldn't steal it from rogues.

More HS:es isnt really something you'll want as fury though. Threat is an issue as it is. Also, rogues should be sword for raids.

[Problazer]

I think you guys are underestimating the power of dagger rogues in raiding. We have several and they are very competitive with other rogues and warriors. In some fights like Vael they are consistently the top dps.

[St0rfan]

I think you guys are underestimating the power of dagger rogues in raiding. We have several and they are very competitive with other rogues and warriors. In some fights like Vael they are consistently the top dps.

Yes, on Vael dagger rogues will be very very good. If we're talking over-all in all raid content, you'll perform better with swords though.

[slipryy]

as of right now if your offhand dagger isn't hitting for 330 minimum than they are a dps loss

[vido]

as of right now if your offhand dagger isn't hitting for 330 minimum than they are a dps loss

don't forget that the fight also requires atleast 69 BT/WW cycles and atleast 3.1416% haste

[slipryy]

idk about that spreadsheet shit but ill be using pugio+edgemaster+r14 mainhand in aq