Rogue Guide by Oto

Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Youfie » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:38 pm

Aslan wrote:
fukanoshi wrote:So basically feint works? For example, I have 10000 threat, perform feint and even if it's still shows 10000, it is actually 9200 (don't know the correct number it reduces). Thanks in advance


It does work, I had quite some fun ping-ponging mobs around with that shitty tauren rogue :). 600 it should be without the new rank coming with AQ and without any T2 bonus (didnt test that one yet)

Yeah it works. I have not idea if the Talent and 5/8 T2 bonus work.

Also, I have no idea if a known-bug that existed on retail as of 1.12 exists on Nostalrius : threat modifiers would apply to threat reductions too, not only threat gains, causing the 600 threat of Feint to become 600 / 1.2 = 500 due to Rogues' passive threat reduction, and 600 / (1.2*1.3) = 385 with Salvation for instance.

I guess nobody ran proper tests here, but Feint in itself does work, yes. When you're very close to the Threat of someone, it's possible to lose aggro just by using Feint.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by fukanoshi » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:23 pm

So if I used 10 feints on Vaelstraz fight for example, my actual threat is 6000 less than it shows on KTM, right?
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Slicy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:54 am

Youfie wrote:
rekc wrote:
Slicy wrote:Could you correct/update the Current BiS List by adding Dragonfang Blade for MH as daggers as 1st option and Perdition's Blade as 2nd option ?

DFB results in more dps than Perdition's Blade with rest of gear being current BiS too once buffed (it remains true with ZG, as Hakkar's Heart buff is adding even more efficiency to DFB thanks to stats scaling).

Break that false years old knowledge about Perds being BiS which isn't even taking into account raiding environment, poison procs, etc.
It is not the current BiS.

You can also add 15 agi as a better option (by around 1 dps) / alternative to Superior Striking for MH dagger enchant.



So does that mean DFB/CHT is BIS for dagger rogues? At what point does this take effect (is their a crit/hit level or Agi level)

Yeah it's BiS, unless you reach the crit cap, at which point Perdition becomes a better MH. It doesn't seem to to take effect after a certain point, but *until* a point :).


I would say it's start to be BiS once you've gathered 80/90% of your BiS items with +hit available in current content. The best in slot gear would grant you enough +hit to make you push your white crit cap further, making your total agi once buffed worth it.
Keep in mind (my bad for not precising it though) that these calculations were made by using all raid buffs on alliance side (BoK being a major factor in DFB > Perd) and world buffs (DM, Rallying Cry, then these two + Spirit of the Zandalar).
I haven't tried really checked for Horde side, but since DFB is BiS with BoK & without Spirit of the Zandalar already, raiding with this world buff alone should make DFB better than Perd if you're Horde.
Even though the dps difference is very small between the two MH, it is good to know that Perdition's Blade isn't your one & only option (aka Perd doesn't drop during weeks but DFB is for instance).
The true BiS are R14 daggers, but most guides will not take this into account for obvious reasons.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by bockhorm » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:13 pm

I dont get it, how can DFB be better than Perdition's AFTER you are buffed and thereby crit capped? I can understand DFB being better than perdition's when you actually gain most relevant crit from the agi, but if you are already crit capped, then, surely, Perdition's has to be better?
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Youfie » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:58 pm

bockhorm wrote:I dont get it, how can DFB be better than Perdition's AFTER you are buffed and thereby crit capped? I can understand DFB being better than perdition's when you actually gain most relevant crit from the agi, but if you are already crit capped, then, surely, Perdition's has to be better?

That's exactly what I said. Slicy basically added that since he takes into account all world buffs, he says that to make DFB worthwile, you need you need a lot of +Hit to have a high crit-cap, and thus to allow DFB to be better (long story short). :)
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Aslan » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Blizzlike sources on a full T2 procrate anyone? :)
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Slicy » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:02 pm

bockhorm wrote:I dont get it, how can DFB be better than Perdition's AFTER you are buffed and thereby crit capped? I can understand DFB being better than perdition's when you actually gain most relevant crit from the agi, but if you are already crit capped, then, surely, Perdition's has to be better?


My bad, I wasn't precise enough in the previous post.

What makes DFB > Perd's fully buffed AND close to BiS isn't just the small crit you would gain by pushing your crit cap further thanks to a lot of Hit on gear.

It is also the fact it makes you push even further your total Agi (especially under the effects of BoK + Spirit of Zandalar) for more AP. The AP component buffing both your MH & OH base damage is what will compensate the higher base damage of Perd's and then deliver more dps in the end.

This is basically the same debate as +5 weap dmg vs +15 agi enchants. Surely, 5 weap dmg is great for starting raids and for pvp. Bigger Backstab dmg, can't go wrong with that. However if you look at the bigger picture once geared & buffed up you'll quickly realize 15 agi simply outperforms 5 weap dmg.

In short, DFB becomes better under 2 conditions (close to BiS geared and fully buffed) and for 2 reasons (more crit & more ap, which buff up your overall damage output more than the higher base dmg of Perd would).
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Grimmjob » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:10 pm

Hey Oto! :D I'm just wandring if you have a list of Nature res gear for rogues to AQ? or if you hany tips? My guild are putting together a nature res gear list for all classes and would be really help if you had one i could work out from or any suggetens :) Thanks mate ^^

Love fram Lille.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Soyoen » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:02 am

Grimmjob wrote:Hey Oto! :D I'm just wandring if you have a list of Nature res gear for rogues to AQ? or if you hany tips? My guild are putting together a nature res gear list for all classes and would be really help if you had one i could work out from or any suggetens :) Thanks mate ^^

Love fram Lille.

~Craftable~
0 of 1 [Bloodfang Chestpiece] // [Sylvan Vest] +100HP
0 of 1 [Stonebark Gauntlets] +7Agi
0 of 1 [Gaea's Embrace] +15NR
0 of 1 [Bramblewood Helm] +10NR
0 of 1 Bramblewood Belt]
0 of 1 [Bramblewood Boots] // [Drudge Boots] Minor Speed
0 of 1 [Sylvan Shoulders] // [Unnatural Leather Spaulders] +30AP // +5NR

~Quest Rewards~
0 of 1 [Cenarion Reservist's Leggings] +10NR
0 of 1 [Malfurion's Signet Ring] // [20+ NR Ring]
0 of 1 [Band of Cenarius]

~Drops~
0 of 2 [Heart of Noxxion]

[Viscidus Weapons]
Two of the following sets

0 of 2 [Sliverblade]
0 of 2 [Coldrage Dagger]
0 of 2 [Bonechill Hammer]
0 of 1 [Iceblade Hacker]
0 of 1 [Darrowspike]
Last edited by Soyoen on Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Aslan » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:37 am

Soyoen wrote:
Grimmjob wrote:Hey Oto! :D I'm just wandring if you have a list of Nature res gear for rogues to AQ? or if you hany tips? My guild are putting together a nature res gear list for all classes and would be really help if you had one i could work out from or any suggetens :) Thanks mate ^^

Love fram Lille.

~Craftable~
0 of 1 [Bloodfang Chestpiece] // [Sylvan Vest] +100HP
0 of 1 [Stonebark Gauntlets] +7Agi
0 of 1 [Gaea's Embrace] +15NR
0 of 1 [Bramblewood Helm] +10NR
0 of 1 Bramblewood Belt]
0 of 1 [Bramblewood Boots] // [Drudge Boots] Minor Speed
0 of 1 [Sylvan Shoulders] // [Unnatural Leather Spaulders] +30AP // +5NR

~Quest Rewards~
0 of 1 [Cenarion Reservist's Leggings] +10NR
0 of 1 [Malfurion's Signet Ring] // [20+ NR Ring]
0 of 1 [Band of Cenarius]

~Drops~
0 of 2 [Heart of Noxxion]

[Viscidus Weapons]
Two of the following sets

0 of 2 [Sliverblade] Icy Chill
0 of 2 [Coldrage Dagger] Icy Chill
0 of 2 [Bonechill Hammer] Icy Chill
0 of 1 [Iceblade Hacker] Icy Chill
0 of 1 [Darrowspike] Icy Chill


http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.11.0
Three new nature resist leather armor recipes have been added to the ghost leatherworker of Silithus for those with high Cenarion Circle reputation.
Three new nature resist plate recipes have been added to the merchants at Cenarion Hold for those with high Cenarion Circle reputation.
Four new nature resist cloth armor recipes have been added to the merchants at Cenarion Hold for those with high Cenarion Circle reputation.
New quests available in Zul'Gurub and Light's Hope Chapel for head and leg resistance enchantments.

Note: 1.11 is the naxx patch, 1.9 is AQ(?)
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