Can survival actually outDPS MM?

[mousepad]

Assuming one has BiS gear and is even going full agility glass enchants and has kings (10% agil)

Im still having a hard time convincing myself can someone do the math plox

edit:pvp setting

[phyriel]

With BiS Naxx gear MM > Surv. However AQ40 patch provides items that spike in power for Surv build and thats the only time when this spec got some chances to beat raw dps of MM (not talking about taking out aura from melees if u want to take that fact into consideration then surv drops down). For PvP i guess surv gonna land bigger auto and aimeds

[Bravethestone]

With BiS Naxx gear MM > Surv.s

Do you have any numbers comparing stats with both builds in full T3? I would think that Agi scaling would be even better going from full Dragonstalker to full Cryptstalker and thus net more crit and AP, in the end outpacing the Multishot and RWS benefits of full MM. The extra 3% hit of Surefooted allowing you to focus on off pieces that give more agi, crit, or AP while still maintaining hit cap.

[Boaris]

With BiS Naxx gear MM > Surv. However AQ40 patch provides items that spike in power for Surv build and thats the only time when this spec got some chances to beat raw dps of MM (not talking about taking out aura from melees if u want to take that fact into consideration then surv drops down). For PvP i guess surv gonna land bigger auto and aimeds

This isn't entirely true, the survival builds mathematically exceeds MM when you reach 450 agility stand alone. But if another hunter is providing TSA it is better with even entry level gear assuming the build is 0/21/30.

It's pretty simple to determine really:

Survival build:

+ 8% Crit
+ 15% Agility
+ 5% Multi/Volley Damage
+ 30% Ranged Crit Damage Bonus

Marks Build
+ 5% Crit
+ 15% Multi/Volley Damage
+ 30% Ranged Crit Damage Bonus
+ 5% Damage
+ 100 AP

If you are raiding with other hunters and get TSA from another source, Survival is the way to go.

[Aslan]

Why take hunters if not for tsa/tranq?

[chunass]

Why take hunters if not for tsa/tranq?

This. Since hunters scale like shit into later raid content and have terrible dps compared to other classes, most guilds will start bringing fewer hunters to raids. If you then spec survival instead of providing 4 melee dps with TSA, you're only gimping the raid's dps.

[Marisi]

Survival is not a thing. Even in the best possible T3 gear setup with full consumes and world buffs, and even leaching someone else's TSA (lol), you will never out dps a PvE specced Marks hunter. There simply doesn't exist an attainable break-even point where LR and KI is enough to make up for losing TSA, RWS, Barrage, iAoTH, Unleashed Fury and Ferocity.

[Overtime]

I never understood fancying survival until Lock and Load. I guess having semi pvp talents adds flavour but still overrated for pve.

[ibux]

Its nice to have improved Feign death, for swaping trinkets in combat, to max dps to, but as others has sayd TSA or you will get kicked from raids.

[Boaris]

Survival is not a thing. Even in the best possible T3 gear setup with full consumes and world buffs, and even leaching someone else's TSA (lol), you will never out dps a PvE specced Marks hunter. There simply doesn't exist an attainable break-even point where LR and KI is enough to make up for losing TSA, RWS, Barrage, iAoTH, Unleashed Fury and Ferocity.

This is not true at all