Questions regarding hunters

[mrmr]

Not sure if troll or just... nvm.
If that "someone" is a mob without any resists - yes, he will never sit in cc less than stated full duration, but almost all mobs have resists, so it leaves us with pets which are counted as mobs (Drain said it, no idea why you didn't read it). And pets by default have 0 resists meaning that they will get CCed for full duration.

I think you're misinterpreting how "resist" works.

It's called "heartbeat" because the check is done every N seconds.
If, as you say, resistances are affecting CC, then for every heartbeat with more resistance you will have a higher chance to break the CC effect. That does not mean 0 resisteance has 0 chance to break CC....just a lower chance.

[Veleant]

Not sure why are you using word "you" - from what I've tested heartbeat doesn't work on players:
1st cast poly - debuff timer shows 60 seconds - 10 seconds actual time in poly
2nd cast poly - debuff timer shows 30 seconds - 5 seconds actual time in poly
3rd cast poly - debuff timer shows 15 seconds - about 2.5 seconds time in poly
Imo it looks like DR, not the heartbeat mechanic
Now my pet:
1st cast poly (with 0 arcane resist) - debuff timer shows 60 seconds - full time in poly
2nd cast poly - debuff timer shows 60 seconds - full time in poly
3rd cast poly - debuff timer shows 60 seconds - full time in poly
If mage spams poly - pet never exists it.
/end of thread.

[mrmr]

Not sure if troll or just... nvm.

Do you realize that Diminishing_Returns and Heartbeat_Resist are two different mechanics?

[lequintal69]

thats what i was tryin gto say

this guy talks about DR when i talk about heartbeat...
and ofc heartbeat works on players..

[lequintal69]

N


It's called "heartbeat" because the check is done every N seconds.
If, as you say, resistances are affecting CC, then for every heartbeat with more resistance you will have a higher chance to break the CC effect. That does not mean 0 resisteance has 0 chance to break CC....just a lower chance.

I'm asking for a source on that, cuz my friends and I have NEVER heard anything about heartbeat calculating magical resistance of the target ..
heartbeat in TBC and after is related to hit chance and level of target i assume, so again, if somone states that magical resistance reduces the DURATION of cc, i would like him to post some links cuz i have never ever heard about that

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1126994743
post n°5. this guy suggests some changes regarding racial and he says a nice change would be
"Resists could also reduce the CC time that cc spells of those types have"
So, if he suggests that addition, that means it didnt exist before ? or at least it goes in favor of that thinking

[Youfie]

N


It's called "heartbeat" because the check is done every N seconds.
If, as you say, resistances are affecting CC, then for every heartbeat with more resistance you will have a higher chance to break the CC effect. That does not mean 0 resisteance has 0 chance to break CC....just a lower chance.

I'm asking for a source on that, cuz my friends and I have NEVER heard anything about heartbeat calculating magical resistance of the target ..
heartbeat in TBC and after is related to hit chance and level of target i assume, so again, if somone states that magical resistance reduces the DURATION of cc, i would like him to post some links cuz i have never ever heard about that

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1126994743
post n°5. this guy suggests some changes regarding racial and he says a nice change would be
"Resists could also reduce the CC time that cc spells of those types have"
So, if he suggests that addition, that means it didnt exist before ? or at least it goes in favor of that thinking

Dude, you already answered by yourself to your interrogations.

The hearbeat basically simulates, every X seconds, the spell being re-cast on the target affected by the cc. If the spell fails to hit, then the cc breaks.

Heartbeat is, as you said related to the hit chance of the caster, which means it also takes into account the level difference between the caster and the target, okay.

But a crowd control spell being by essence a binary spell, it means a higher resistance of the target to the school of magic of the spell will decrease the chance of the said spell to hit, not only at initial cast, but also at each heartbeat resist check, hence reducing its average duration.

Getting more into details about this subject would require to examine what a binary spell is, which is not really the topic I guess.

And btw, the 12-second cap mentioned earlier did not exist in Vanilla. It was added in patch 2.0. Before that, you had only a heartbeat system.

[lequintal69]

Heartbeat is, as you said related to the hit chance of the caster, which means it also takes into account the level difference between the caster and the target, okay.

But a crowd control spell being by essence a binary spell, it means a higher resistance of the target to the school of magic of the spell will decrease the chance of the said spell to hit, not only at initial cast, but also at each heartbeat resist check, hence reducing its average duration.

.

i'm still looking for a viable source
Anyway If that was true, i wonder how much weight magical resistance would have in the heartbeat formula. Cuz i used to play priest during vanilla and even tho priests have 60-70+ shadow resistance, i dont remember getting 3 seconds-fears..(initial fear, no DR)

Anyway whether magical resistance was included in the vanilla heartbeat's formula, my initial point was that pets should have heartbeat mechanic.
Thus, pets should never get feared for 20sec or sheeped for 30sec.

[Youfie]

I totally agree with you, lequintal69, when you say there were little confusions in the answers that were given to you previously. In addition to some factual mistakes (12-second cap), Diminushing Returns were discussed instead of heartbeat.


Regarding binary spells hit chance :
I'm really too tired to look for something regarding Binary Spells hit chance calculation right now. It shouldn't take long if you lookup yourself though . But that doesn't really matter anyway, it's not the point of this thread.


Regarding fear break chance :
Fear effects don't have the same heartbeat mechanic. It's not a sheep, it's not a sap, it's a on-damage break chance spell, like Frost Nova .
As far as I know, the formula was modified several times by Blizzard during vanilla, but in 1.12, long story short, dots have a very little chance to break Fear each time they tick, while direct damage spells have a higher one that becomes a 100% chance after a certain amount ; against mobs it's way harder to get your Fear to break than against players.
So basically, breaking a fear with dots only on a mobs target means huge amount of damage caused by dots in a very short timespan, it's basically impossible in solo.

Regarding the chance to break over time because of spell hit chance (heartbeat) in addition to this, I couldn't tell you right now honestly, I guess there is one too. I'm not 100% sure, but thorough searches have been carried out by the staff a long time ago, I can assure you that . Anyway heartbeat still matters less for fear effects than it does for Poly for instance. The base duration is 20s vs. 45s and it might come into play in the heartbeat formula.


Anyway, back to the topic, i.e. spells with a "normal" heartbeat like Polymorph or Sap : of course mobs have a heartbeat chance to have the cc effect to fade before its full duration.

The formula is just not the same for mobs / players. I don't know how the staff scripted the formula here, so I couldn't tell you any more information. Maybe the checks are far more frequent on players than they are on mobs, or the miss chance applied in the formula is multiplied by a certain amount or something for players, I have no idea.

But basically, a polymorph on a mob of your own level with no special resistance or anything usually last its full duration, especially if you have a little +hit on your gear / template, reducing your miss chance to 1%. The same situation with a player instead of a mob can lead a polymorph to last very long (NOT 12s maximum), but in average its definitely something like 10-15s rather than 30+.

Hope this helps out .

[mrmr]

snip

As you say, resistance will kicks in when the CC spell is casted, but I really doubt that resistance gets in the calculation for the heartbeat-resist mechanic.
I would really like to see some proof for this (might be quite hard to come by...)

[Youfie]

snip

As you say, resistance will kicks in when the CC spell is casted, but I really doubt that resistance gets in the calculation for the heartbeat-resist mechanic.
I would really like to see some proof for this (might be quite hard to come by...)

Well, you can find many proof online that players with more +hit had their CCs last longer. It is common knowledge. I think posts about guilds gearing their Priests with Bloodvine to make their Shackles or Mind Control last longer can be found on EJ and round the net for instance.

+hit acts as spell penetration for binary spells if the target has some magic resistance, because more resistance means higher chance to miss a binary spell.

It's just about binary spells rather than heartbeat. If heartbeat is about chance to hit, then +resist decreasing binary spells chance to hit, it also increases the chance that the cc will break, that's pretty much it. Now, maybe the heartbeat checks don't use hit chance, but it's another debate then.