+Healing versus int/spirit

Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Ayag » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:49 pm

Forcerius wrote:Anyone know why my + heal does literally nothing? I only have a couple pieces (about 30+ heal at most) but my heals do MAYBE 5 more. And one piece (+15) does nothing. There's also two types "spells and effects" and "+ healing". Whats the difference? Thanks, i'm sure the info is on Google.


Every spell (healing & damage) have a coefficient applied to the bonus you have.
For example, Renew has a 100% coefficient meaning that every +heal you have will improve the total by this amount (divided equally into the 5 ticks).
Flash Heal however has a 42,9% coefficient. So +30 healing converts into roughly 13 healing added to your Flash Heals.

I would suggest to download the "Theorycraft" addon as it displays the coefficient for each spell (amongst other things).

"+ damage and healing" applies to healing spells aswell.
"+healing" only applies to healing spells.
So you can add up the two of them to get your total +healing bonus.
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Forcerius » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:45 pm

gotmilk0112 wrote:Don't know why people keep pushing this "healing is the absolute best stat, way better than int" thing, it's kinda wrong. If you ignore int and stack healing to downrank, you're just offsetting the inevitable lack of max mana to do the same amount of healing.


How much mana would you lose, and how much healing? Don't just assume.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Attributes
1 INT = 15 mana, and 60 INT = 1% crit roughly.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Healing_comparison
The worst scaling spell for +healing that I see is Flash Heal (except shield) with 42.86%.
We'll use Lesser heal 2 as an example, and we can safely assume it scales equally or higher.
Lesser Heal 2 costs 45 mana, and heals between 71-86 (78 average).
Lets say we have an item with 6 INT (90 mana), and an item with +20 healing.

How much + healing is necessary to be worth sacrificing a relative and specific amount of INT?

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=2052 ... -npc:0-2+1
One Lesser Heal 2 would grant a free 8 healing per cast at minimum. (20 healing * 40.82% scaling = 8.164)
6 INT gives you two extra heals at 90 mana total.

Extra INT is worthless if you still have mana at the end of the fight because those extra heals weren't necessary. Except a minimal amount of crit and faster weapon skills (woo). But what if you run out of mana? How many heals with +20 healing would have to be used during a fight for it to make up for the loss of healing from having two extra casts with 6 int?

Two heals do 156 healing (78 average * 2).
156 / 8 (bonus from +20 healing) = 19.5 casts to make up for it.

Therefore, you'd have to cast 19 heals minimum to make up for the loss of 6 int with +20 bonus healing and 40.82 scaling. And Lesser Heal probably scales closer to 80% based on the scaling of Greater Heal. I just can't find that info.

"So what? I don't get it."

Imagine a dungeon scenario. How many pulls can you go until you have to drink - Until you need the extra two heals from 6 INT? Based on my experience, I could easily cast over 19 Lesser Heals rank 2 before I have to drink. Therefore, +20 healing is > than 6 INT because its "manaless" healing that makes up for the loss (two extra heals with 6 INT). And if its boss fight that runs you OOM without the ability to drink, then we can safely assume we'd cast more than 19 heals during that as well, thus proving the same point.

So +healing is almost always better, until you have a disproportionate amount of INT or other stats. Which would only increase the number of heals required (during a specified amount of time, like a boss) before going OOM to make up for it. Which could still be argued, because how many heals could you actually cast before running OOM from any specific amount of time? Many, to say the least. And if you think OOM is irrelevant to the argument, then understand it works the same way as RAM. There's no point in having 200GB of RAM just to play WoW if you're not using it and it offers no other bonuses from having it.

TLDR: As long can cast enough heals with + healing (bonus only) that equal or exceed the amount you would get from INT (alone) before going OOM, +healing is better. And if you're exceeding that number, then you're getting "more mana" than you would with relative INT from the extra healing.
Last edited by Forcerius on Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Forcerius » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:24 pm

Ayag wrote:
Forcerius wrote:Anyone know why my + heal does literally nothing? I only have a couple pieces (about 30+ heal at most) but my heals do MAYBE 5 more. And one piece (+15) does nothing. There's also two types "spells and effects" and "+ healing". Whats the difference? Thanks, i'm sure the info is on Google.


Every spell (healing & damage) have a coefficient applied to the bonus you have.
For example, Renew has a 100% coefficient meaning that every +heal you have will improve the total by this amount (divided equally into the 5 ticks).
Flash Heal however has a 42,9% coefficient. So +30 healing converts into roughly 13 healing added to your Flash Heals.

I would suggest to download the "Theorycraft" addon as it displays the coefficient for each spell (amongst other things).

"+ damage and healing" applies to healing spells aswell.
"+healing" only applies to healing spells.
So you can add up the two of them to get your total +healing bonus.


Thanks. I didn't know that when I asked. Thought they were all 100%.
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Imbaslap » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:08 pm

theorycraft is a hell of an addon that's for sure. ;)
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Jeniwyn » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:43 pm

Isn't that the addon where you cannot choose to use the actual manacost of the spells for the hpm calculations without it subtracting the regen?

If its the one I think its overall good but the hpm values should be understood to be close to worthless before converting them back for the majority of situations.
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Ayag » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:33 pm

The HPM is indeed a bit weird.
It is calculated from the "true manacost" of a spell which is or should be the base mana spell minus the regen while casting this spell but I don't find the values to be correct, hence the HPM is skewed.
Still a very usefull add-on in my opinion (the third pane is pretty useful and the "custom" option to see your stats with any piece of gear is quite neat).
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Jeniwyn » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:48 pm

They can call it whatever they want. Real cost it isn't. For that to be true you'd have to not get the mana if you decided against casting at all. A very real alternative in fights where HPM is of particular concern. Also one would think that a pot that gives you 1800 mana would give you 1800*hpm more healing. 8-)
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Re: +Healing versus int/spirit

by Askental » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:14 pm

Bump.

Has anyone done the math and actually compared theorycraft's hpm and the correct hpm then?
Sounds like a 1 line fix, if it is only a matter of adding regen while casting... Is it only broken for priests spells? (Unlikely, but... :roll: ) It's such a popular addon, how come this was never fixed?
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