Holy Priest BiS

Re: Holy Priest BiS

by hechie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:31 am

Can we start working on a Shadow Bis list :)?
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by Nepiton » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:21 am

Hey Res,

First, welcome back :D

Been following this list a bit closer now that the PvE server is coming up on the Dire Maul patch (and although much of it isn't relevant, the math behind it as well as the pre-raid BiS gear is).

My only question to you, and I apologize if I missed this somewhere in the 15 pages of replies, where do the stat weights come from?

My quick napkin math checks out that 1 mp5 is certainly > 1 healing, but I can't seem to figure out where the 3.5 number came from.

Thanks,

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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by res » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Nepiton wrote:Hey Res,

My only question to you, and I apologize if I missed this somewhere in the 15 pages of replies, where do the stat weights come from?

My quick napkin math checks out that 1 mp5 is certainly > 1 healing, but I can't seem to figure out where the 3.5 number came from.


The stat weights currently in use is based on how much mana you save per stat, based on casting a 2.5 sec spell uninterruptedly
(unrealistic, I know, and it's just the first of a lot of flaws in the current list. I've been wanting to redo everything for a long time now, I just haven't had any spare time to do it - at least the current list is more accurate than its predecessor, but it's still pretty crude)

If I acquire lets say +600 healing, that would mean that my that my rank 1 "Heal" would now heal for "1002-1054" which is almost the same as my rank 3 "Heal" currently heals for.
Rank 1 "Heal" costs 110 mana to cast for me right now while rank 3 "Heal costs me 195 mana currently to cast.

If I were to cast heals indefinitely for 5 minutes my:
Rank 3 Heal without the 600 healing. would cost me 23400 mana.
Rank 1 Heal with the 600 healing would cost me 13200 mana.
The overall healing done would be roughly the same.
So I save 10200 mana with 600 healing over 5 minutes! That seems like a really good deal! that equals about 170mp5 for 600 healing. So 1 mp5 is worth roughly 3.5 healing! It would equal even more if we used higher rank spells, and the general calculations are pretty rough, which is why I want to remake everything from the ground up. Pretty much all other stats are based off of these simple calculations, for example spirit:

What does 1 spirit give us priests?
~0.25 healing with talents
~0.65 mp5 when not casting

~0.10 mp5 when casting with 15% casting regen
OR
~0.20 mp5 when casting with 30% casting regen

Let's transfer this into our new "healing points"

0.25
+2.275
+0.35
---------
2.875

See, we already come into a problem, we can't value out of combat regen as highly as in combat regen so how should we value it?
If I would be consistent I would just exclude it all together, since in my example I would be casting uninterruptedly, so no time to regen while not casting right?

Well, I kind of just winged it and said it was worth 0.1 of casting regen which makes spirit (If you didn't already have doubts about the numbers, you should now!);

So that makes 1spirit
0.25
+0.2275
+0.35
----------
=0.8275

with transcendence
0.25
+0.2275
+0.70
----------
=1.1775

So yeah, I'm not too proud of it and I think I've mentioned these numbers earlier in the thread.

Most of this was just me trying to improve the earlier stat weights made by macalister, so the calculations were made over a short amount of time and I was satisfied with just improving something that everybody already used, and with new content coming out I just added it on to the existing list instead of reworking it because of time reasons.

I hope at least this has made things a bit more transparent.

(I've been thinking of giving someone else write access to the sheet since I haven't had a lot of time to fix things lately, since this thread is not mine and I can not edit the OP, that makes me think that the easiest way to hand over something like this would be to just hand over the current document)
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by burgler » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:42 pm

I'm just wondering why http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=12604 isn't even on the tier list. It seems way better than some of the items, but I am no expert. Just curious to hear why it is considered bad.
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by Jeniwyn » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:25 pm

burgler wrote:I'm just wondering why http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=12604 isn't even on the tier list. It seems way better than some of the items, but I am no expert. Just curious to hear why it is considered bad.


Clearly an oversight. Its a very fair preraid head.

Even though the value it would get with the formula used here would rank it above the Devout Head I'd still recommend Devout over it (and the other contender for preraid BiS, excluding PvP R10/13, Papal Fez) for MC and ZG due to Stamina unreasonably being valued at 0 here and the Stamina on Devout, at almost any valuation, should make it edge out both this and the Papal Fez.
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by res » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:55 pm

Stamina is valued at 0 because it doesn't benefit healing/mana in any way, I don't see how else to value it.
I'll add some more items to the list later tonight, but that brings me to a problem I ran into:

I have seen people running around with Desert Bloom Gloves and Cenarion Reservist's Pants but the quest doesn't seem to be available in-game (Arnaments of War). Does anyone have any info on this?
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by Jeniwyn » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:50 pm

Yeah. A 0 point valuation isn't unreasonable for a list like this, but one should keep it in mind because the real benefit isn't 0 in many cases.

Not only can it save you from dying outright, a larger health pool can also allow you to make choices that you otherwise wouldn't make. Thus if two items are virtually identical in point valuation here but one item has a ton of extra Stamina it is probably the better item in many situations, and for those who do not wish to run around with several items, they should probably just pick the one with more Stamina outright when it is tight.

How high to value it falls in the "think for yourself" category. :)
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by mallux » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:52 pm

I have seen people running around with Desert Bloom Gloves and Cenarion Reservist's Pants but the quest doesn't seem to be available in-game (Arnaments of War). Does anyone have any info on this?


An NPC right by the Flightmaster in Cenarian Hold is bugged and allows everyone to turn in the quest, regardless of completing the required quest chain. A couple of people have already submitted bug reports.
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by res » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:34 pm

Can anyone confirm the stats of these items:
Abyssal Cloth Wristbands of Restoration (11sta, 4mp5, +26 healing)
and
Abyssal Cloth Amice of Restoration (Unknown)

I have not seen these items in game so I do not know what stats they have.

Edit: Removed Desert Bloom Gloves from the list, if you have this item and the Nature resist legs from "Armaments of War" you should delete them, or you could face action from the Nostalrius Team.
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Re: Holy Priest BiS

by Jeniwyn » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:05 pm

deleted
Last edited by Jeniwyn on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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