Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Anselm » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:50 pm

Hatson wrote:
Anselm wrote:Btw @Hatson : Elemental Mastery in elem PvP spec ? hahaha nice one

It's either that or Nature's Swiftness. Do you want to pretend to be a 3 minute mage and have an instant cast? Personal tastes, really. You could argue the instant cast is much more useful. I wouldn't argue against it really.

"That sham spell is so usefull, but i wont use it cause the mages' one is pure evil shit" Makes a loooooooooot of sens, right :lol:

Captain obvious : Presence of Mind has one and only one goal, pyroshit, Nature's Swiftness is both good in saving someone's ass and burst. :roll:

But yeah, you know, personal tastes.
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by rewind » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:02 am


Goddamn that's Marc Dutroux :?
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by dsquidvicious » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:10 am

If you plan on raiding as a shaman you will most likely be resto.

*Most guilds don't even want an enhance sham with nightfall because you could just give the axe to a warrior and you can't use an enhance sham on rag cuz he is a mana user and the fire explosion will hit the melees.

Some might argue that enhance sham can buff the melees with totems (windfury esp.) but a resto sham can do the same thing and can keep the melees alive at the same time.

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PVE: Resto
PVP: Resto, Enhance, Ele, Hybrid

*This reflects my experience but i am sure there are circumstances where some guilds or five mans would take enhance shams but from what i have seen it is not often.
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Envy » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:12 am

We need someone to give mail crap to ! Hence the enhance shaman :D
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Hatson » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:18 am

Anselm wrote:"That sham spell is so usefull, but i wont use it cause the mages' one is pure evil shit" Makes a loooooooooot of sens, right :lol:

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Anselm wrote:Captain obvious : Presence of Mind has one and only one goal, pyroshit, Nature's Swiftness is both good in saving someone's ass and burst. :roll:

But yeah, you know, personal tastes.

Yep.
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Grungie » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:22 am

dsquidvicious wrote: you can't use an enhance sham on rag cuz he is a mana user and the fire explosion will hit the melees.


Just have to dps alone few meters away of the melees :geek:
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Hatson » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:32 am

dsquidvicious wrote:If you plan on raiding as a shaman you will most likely be resto.

Of course. There's no reason to ever take more than 1 enhance shaman for a raid, and that's only because of Nightfall. And like you mention as well, you can do it with a Warrior instead, however, take this into consideration:

dsquidvicious wrote:*Most guilds don't even want an enhance sham with nightfall because you could just give the axe to a warrior and you can't use an enhance sham on rag cuz he is a mana user and the fire explosion will hit the melees.

The Warrior is melee as well, and the fact that the Enhance is a mana user is of no relevance when it comes to applying Nightfall or keeping the buff up as consistently as possible. Here's why:

dsquidvicious wrote:Some might argue that enhance sham can buff the melees with totems (windfury esp.) but a resto sham can do the same thing and can keep the melees alive at the same time.

Except that, you would rather put the resto shaman into healer or caster groups, because of Mana Tide Totem. Being put into a melee group as a resto shaman is a waste of that spell. But, still, you can do it.
However, don't forget that Enhancement has improved agility, strength, and windfury totems, so the melee group would benefit more from having an Enhancement in their party rather than a resto.

PSA: Again, this is just an added bonus, it's not a must have in any situation, please understand I'm not saying you have to have an enhancement, I'm just writing down the arguments and facts for why one could consider an enhancement for Nightfall.

And here's the kicker for why: Enhancements have Windfury weapon enchant.
The entire purpose of the Nightfall user in the raid, is to keep up Nightfall as much as they can. How do you do that? By getting in as many swings as possible, as often as possible.

Let's look at who gets in more swings: Warrior, or a Shaman?

1) The Shaman has Windfury weapon enchant. That's 2 extra attacks, not just 1 like the Warrior could only even perhaps have from a windfury totem.
2) He has Flurry in his talent tree: +30% more AS after critting. If the Warrior is Fury spec'd, he can to however with a +50%! - But does the 20% beat WF? That's up for debate all on its own and I'm not going to get into that sort of math, whoo wee.
3) The Enhancement also has Elemental Devastation. Although this might be a low chance of proc'ing, it does happen few times through the course of a Boss fight. Even when oom, the Shaman can always rank 1 shock to try and get an Elemental Devastation proc. And that increase his crit chance by another 9% for 10 seconds. Getting more flurry procs.
4) What this means is: The more the shaman swings, the more WF procs he gets, the more WF procs he gets, the greater the amount of extra hits he gets. I'd argue more so than the Warrior would get. The more hits the Enhancement gets, the more he crits, the more he crits, the faster he hits yet again.


But that's enough from me. I'm only bringing up points for why you could consider using an enhancement. And if you ask me, even though it might be biased. If Nightfall uptime is what I want from my raid, then I'd take the enhancement over the warrior, any day.
The increased totem buffs, the WF procs, more hits = more crits = more flurry = more hits, and so on forever.

This doesn't change the fact that there would only ever be 1 enhancement in a raiding group, or the entire guild for that matter, ever. And his only duty is to be the Nightfall. (And boost the e-peen of the melees in his group)

And again, you could always just give the Nightfall to the Warrior OT to switch to it when he's not tanking.
Last edited by Hatson on Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:50 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Hatson » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:33 am

Envy wrote:We need someone to give mail crap to ! Hence the enhance shaman :D


The bag always has to be full of crap! Ooh, shinies.
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by Drain » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:43 am

Hunters?
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Re: Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

by mx420 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:21 am

IMO. in terms of leveling, ele is going to be a better "first" character. Proper rotation will keep your mana from running out too quick and because of the gear you'll be wearing you can still heal most dungeons (ST and below), enhance would be more fun to level once you have a 60 to feed it. (what im going to do)

in terms of ENDGAME:

Resto: Raids: Chain heal is amazing, keeps people that forget they have WASD keys alive during a fight.
PVP: amazing in BGs (like all ppl who actually heal here) plus your hard to focus down with all your armor and "uninterruptible" heals. (see talents) Duels/solo: its the safest spec, bit boring tho. (becomes a game of who can survive longer)
Grinding: slow, boring .. meh

Elemental: Raids: You can be pretty decent dps in ZG, after that you become increasingly less useful
PVP: really good for kiting and being that asshole in the back of an AV mob that kills people in 5 secs by spamming lightning bolt.
Grinding: O.K. on the right rotation, very mana hungry otherwise.

Enhance: Raids: useless really, the 2nd you start doing good dps (which is possible with the right gear... think crit>all) you will instantly die from aggro as the dmg you do is ALL burst. (we had a shaman with the hand of rag, he wouldnt be on the dps meter... then he would... then hed be dead.)
PVP: probably the more fun pvp spec, i dont need to get into this because EVERYONE has seen WF videos... just understand those are "cherry picked"... VERY fun when it happens tho.
Grinding: Best spec for 60 shaman, assuming your gears is at least decent.

hope that helps! all info is based on my experience as a 60 shaman during vanilla retail, and a few private servers after that.
Last edited by mx420 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
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