Ret/Holy Hybrid Paladin PvP

[DrearyYew]

So, I have decided to jump ship from Warrior to Paladin for PvP on launch. I know I'll be doing less damage, but I like having the ability to pump out some strong self-healing, as well as support healing for others, while maintaining a respectable damage output. Also, bubble OP.

Now, I need to decide on a build. I don't really want to run some gimmicky reckoning build, and I really like the idea of having repentance for an extra reset button in 1v1s, and an extra CC for group PvP.

As for the rest of my 20 points, this is where it gets tricky. I could go for Blessing of Kings in the Protection tree, and dump the remaining points into Holy, or I could go up and grab 5/5 Illumination, as well as all of the benefits that the Holy tree brings to my healing.

So, the options are:

20/0/31: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sEou0xZZxfctMcqo

or

9/11/31: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#svZxGzZxfctMcqo

I'm really leaning to the 20/0/31 build, since I think the benefits from the Holy tree would be slightly better than that of the Protection tree, especially when you consider that in group PvP settings, there will likely be another Paladin with the Blessing of Kings talent.

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

[TheLockKing]

...Paladins doing damage in PvP?

What is this world coming to?

[Guirssane]

I would personally do something like that http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 3512003151 don't use blessing of might, but go for blessing of wisdom as it gives you more sustain and you're able to spam heal and stuff.

other spec with prot tree so it gives you more hit and allow you to switch to shield/1h vs melee class : http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 03512c3151

it's how i used to play it on vanilla

PS : grab engineering if you want to pown some mages and casters in general, otherwise you'll be really fucked.

[DrearyYew]

...Paladins doing damage in PvP?

What is this world coming to?

Like I said, I don't expect to be doing anywhere near the level of damage as some other classes, but have more of an attrition style combat in 1v1, while a more support role in group settings, capable of applying some sort of pressure.

I would personally do something like that http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 3512003151 don't use blessing of might, but go for blessing of wisdom as it gives you more sustain and you're able to spam heal and stuff.

other spec with prot tree so it gives you more hit and allow you to switch to shield/1h vs melee class : http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 03512c3151

it's how i used to play it on vanilla

PS : grab engineering if you want to pown some mages and casters in general, otherwise you'll be really fucked.

Interesting... I was thinking of swapping between my BoM/BoW as the situation deemed necessary, usually sitting on BoM until my mana was getting somewhat low, or if I was put into a situation of needing to spam heals, but I see the point. I still really like the 20% extra AP from Imp BoM, whereas Imp BoW only gives 6.9 mp5 over the base BoW.

Also, I really like the Healing Light talent for 12% more healing from HL/FoL, and if I can get a respectable spell crit, then Illumination could be extremely powerful. I could see the spell crit being a problem at low gear levels, though, so it might be better to run something like...

14/5/31: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0uZVZxfctMcqo

With a free point to put into either Precision for the 1% melee hit, or Guardian's Favor for reduced BoP CD and increased BoF duration.

Actually, I also have a question regarding the mechanics of SoC and Judgement. Do they get their crit from Spell Crit or Melee Crit? I know Judgement scaled from both AP and SP, but does SoC scale from both as well? I tried googling, and couldn't find a definitive answer on that.

[Trolle]

I'd use this probably more:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sZZebctMcqo

Reasoning:
Improved Seal of the Crusader wont give you anything since you use Seal of Command.
In holy tree you need to get down to tier 3 talents, 70% interupted heals is better than more INT. Better to get off heals rather than have mana. Holy tier 3 talents for pvp is awesome. They are more about what you need situational than what Illumination is. Illumination is just about sustainability. Just as Improved Blessing of Wisdom. PVE wise sustainability is better since all fights are predictable, but in PVP all fights are situational. Meeting a rogue? 10% of the times their stunlocks wont connect. Have a warrior friend that need insta heal and some more armor? Lay of Hands (also, cut down Lay of hands by 20 minutes!)

[DrearyYew]

I'd use this probably more:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sZZebctMcqo

Reasoning:
Improved Seal of the Crusader wont give you anything since you use Seal of Command.
In holy tree you need to get down to tier 3 talents, 70% interupted heals is better than more INT. Better to get off heals rather than have mana. Holy tier 3 talents for pvp is awesome. They are more about what you need situational than what Illumination is. Illumination is just about sustainability. Just as Improved Blessing of Wisdom. PVE wise sustainability is better since all fights are predictable, but in PVP all fights are situational. Meeting a rogue? 10% of the times their stunlocks wont connect. Have a warrior friend that need insta heal and some more armor? Lay of Hands (also, cut down Lay of hands by 20 minutes!)

The reason I like 3/3 Imp SotC is that the debuff it applies is refreshed by melee attacks, so I could start a fight with SotC, then swap to SoC once the debuff is applied. Although, seal-swapping like this does take mana, and this could really cause an issue in long fights/group fights. Might have to manually test this one myself

[Guirssane]

Anyway there are lot of ways to play your pally in PvP.
I told you mine, but it really depends on the player and his gameplay.

[TheLockKing]

Anyway there are lot of ways to play your pally in PvP.
I told you mine, but it really depends on the player and his gameplay.

Yeah. You can heal constantly and then bubblehearth out when you become the target.. or you can assist the warrior in his kills and bubblehearth out when he dies...

[Guirssane]

Anyway there are lot of ways to play your pally in PvP.
I told you mine, but it really depends on the player and his gameplay.

Yeah. You can heal constantly and then bubblehearth out when you become the target.. or you can assist the warrior in his kills and bubblehearth out when he dies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr_inDkNPBQ

or you can be decent and understand your class :p

It"s like during tbc people sayin' ret was shit but couldn't play it properly with switch and stuff

[alucard001]

Trust me.

-Reckret without decent gear
-Shockadin Ret with T1 and T2
-Vengeance Ret with PVP set / Crit+Strength pieces, AQ40 gear and some. (Best Ret build, but it requires high crit rating).

Respectives builds are:

1) http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 0512203100
2) http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... p5223c512g
3) http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 03512c3151

If you need more explanation why, i can tell you.

1) Without good gear, you don't have a shit of crit as Ret, you don't have spell dmg either, so your judgments do low dmg, and you barely stack Vengeance, so Reckret is your best option. For every crit you get, you will get high dmg. If you are not getting dmg, your dmg will be almost same that with full Ret talents. Besides, this build reduces your HoJ cooldown which is useful cos it duplicates your Judgment of Command's dmg. And more survivability ofc.

2) If you have Tier 1 or 2, you obviously will have spell dmg increased by X. Then is your time to play as Shockadin. A balanced dmg healing ret, is really useful in many situations, and very superior to a ungeared Reckret.

3) Once you have full crit ret (you will get this only with specific blue/epic(rare) pieces, PVP gear and AQ40 gear, obviously, it will take a long time for being ready to play this build), you are allowed to play a real Retardin. As full crit ret (gear which provides crit will also give you good strength/sp dmg, be sure of that), you will get Vengeance buff. 15% dmg, insane, with a good weapon you will crit 1k1 per swing, if lucky. With vengeance you will crit 1k5 per swing, a insane dmg, good healing and cleanse ofc).
Thats why a ret is awesome , but just with insane gear. In general, classes don't need endgame gear to be useful, ret needs.

PD: In my opinion Reckret and Shockadin sucks compared with other classes, but they are not useless either.
Be happy with ur Pala , i hope this help you.