Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by smilkovpetko » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:45 pm

by Cystheen Guide:

More block value from talents then Warriors due to Shield Specialization and 10% Strength

(this contradict to his items where he favor other trinket than sapphiron for surviving (which sapp) trink gives tons of block value) .

Defense: Less chance you will be crit and also gives more mitigation. Crit cap is at 440. Don’t worry too much about getting the cap. It wont happen until you have half AQ40 gear


How he can Tank Bosses in AQ40 and BWL without Def Cap?

The EXTREME MINIMUM amount you will need.


Elixir of Greater Intellect x20 (25 Intellect)
Scroll of Intellect IV World Drop or Vender Cooldown. (16 Intellect).
Juju Guile Obtained from the repeatable quest "Wildkin E'ko" from Witch Doctor Mau'ari in Winterspring. (30 Intellect).


do you know that they wont stack up in server? (at least juju and scroll) with mage intellect

Flask of Distilled Wisdom x2 (If asked to heal these are nice to carry around).


this is not Tanking consume at all , neither you can Tank Boss with that.

You can set your Hearthstone to Goldshire and ask for a Summon to go retrieve a Darkmoon Faire Buff from Sayge.


Darkmoon is not always in Nostalrius either.

Libram of Hope


How is this better than Fervor for threats? when you could use Fervor for extra damage per swing.

Some of the comments

Drakon the first time I built threat on Lashlayer in our first raid I was 2nd threat behind you. (Without a Retribution Paladin).


Without Retribution Paladin on that Boss when i used Spell damage Weapon , i was topping warriors 2 times higher on Threats where DPS could full nuke and i would remain on Boss for 2-3 Mortal strikes before he manage to reduce my threats near Warriors.

I just remember the first time I saw myself on Lashlayer I was either 3rd or 2nd on KTM. People were actually surprised and some even whispered me about it. Of course for me to even be decent it takes a LOT more dedication then most classes, plus the fact that BWL+ I might NEED a Retribution Paladin for threat.


I don't even need Retribution in order to do Tons of threats at all.

I did BWL this weekend and I was 3rd aggro under the other 2 warrior tanks on Lashlayer but I held back a little bit so I would purposely be 3rd. Although this was with a Ret Paladin in the group. I have a LOT more control over my threat when I have one.


Although you realize in order for me to get aggro on Vael I am below until the 20% mark because then I can spam Hammer of Wrath for burst holy aggro. That short video was me by the end caught up under the warriors on a progression fight with a Retribution Paladin in the group. I don't think I could do that fight with our more current dps geared core.


You cant tank Satura because you need to taunt a lot.


http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Battleguard_Sartura
Sartura and her adds will occasionally reset aggro for several seconds and start chasing random people for a duration of 5 seconds. After those 5 seconds they will return to the highest aggro target, so as long as you don't pull aggro off of the tank they will go back to him.

In MC I can literally tank everything except Shazz and Ragnaros.


I did those 2 are easy , when you use SP weapon , once shazz blink you just jor and it is instant taunt for you.

Ragnaros you start 1st , when warrior knockback using strong SP weapon with jor/sor you run to Boss and he will be on you (as his aggro apply only Melee and reset each knockback).

You can't tank Fankriss and let all the warriors use fury gear for more dps because Consecrate will aggro a snake and your dead. (Even attempting to tank Fankriss on a wall so only half of your Consecrate is close to a snake is sketchy and pointless)


Spell Damage Weapon - JoTC , SoR,Holy Shield,Retribution Aura,Sanctuary , you don't even need Consecration for This boss and Threats will remain extremely high.

You can only really tank 2 of the 3 bugs in Bug Trio


The strategy to beat Yauj is to tank her as far as you can from the main raid, 2 Priest Healers with Fear Ward on you , they soak the Fears so they don't overaggro you, with enough +SP you can retake boss with 1 simple JoR (while nobody else interfere with boss killing other adds and nobody else except you and 2x Dwarf Priests on that Boss soaking Fears while Bubble pre Fear on you and Fearwarding you).

Twins your gonna have to heal

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 0711_o.jpg

I cant tank Razuvious stuff because of Mana Burn instant K.O. or the fact I believe you need taunt.


Waste your mana before you engage Boss , take the add , build some aggro then use Holy Light to keep on wasting your mana , use SoR before Boss hit AoE mana burn and wait for mob to get released from CC , with 1 SoR swing using strong SP weapon aggro is your .

In Aq40 your right there isn't a lot and I have explained that in a previous post.


Here is him admit that he can't tank all Bosses in Aq40 , which is so wrong and he can do that easy , key remain - SP weapon

'Lyq',
I don't even think he could hold aggro on patch but I never saw a pally tanking in classic^^
mage or a fury could easy overaggro and without a taunt ..gg

I could hold aggro I just would have problems considering I could not spam Stoneshield pots. Also it would be easier to hold aggro in a progressing guild that just recently got him on farm. Although even then I maybe could with a Ret Paladin due to the buffed threat and undead target abilities.


Strongest SP weap with Sp Ench + SP Consumes = JotC + SoR = enjoy on extremely high threats while using Greater Stoneshield Potion .

Consecration, hammer of wrath, holy wrath and exorcism etc scale with attack power atm,

The reason Cystheen could manage doing Threats in Naxx , considering Consecration was doing minimum 80 damage/tick without any Ap/Sp in the Gear and would scale high with extra AP and SP.

'The_Wind', on 04 Dec 2012 - 6:20 PM, said:

Btw a tip for new paladin tanks.

Always judge SotC before using SoR, more holy damage -> more damage -> more aggro.

With consumables this action you are suggesting is usually a waste of mana considering your threat is fine anyway


How can JotC and SoR is wasting Mana when it prevents you from spamming Consecrations , which Consecrations are wasting mana .

with enough + SP using JotC and SoR you can go up 200 Holy damage per swing , where Consecration you will hardly achieve using Max rank (maximum)150 Holy damage in cost of extremely high amount of mana using , especially at long fights duration.


At the end of the day, Cystheen is good at Guides writing creative which i admit , but his Gearwise , Tankingwise doesn't suit properly on Boss Tanking , especially not on this server where people will never have mercy regarding Threats and Healing Tank.

(not using def cap in 40 mans in server and eating lot dmg by Boss in 40 man in Nostalrius will make you give extremely bad moral to Prot paladins as bad tanks which feed the trolls everyday) .


Cystheen and me are using different theory , same as JC which used his own different Theory either.

We all agree to disagree , people can choose whatever they want, they have alternatives but speaking of "what is better or worse" (where cystheen did start)
I noticed you had alternatives and these items were in there as well I just wouldn't use your bis list
then there will be huge debate for that.

(all the quotes was Cystheen's comments)
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by JCarrill0 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:32 pm

Everyone has some good points here, however I am not sure how this previous few posts relate to my gear guide, the second post is featuring end game BiSf, but that is not the guide you were quoting from Duki, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to make it an open debate in this thread, I'm not mad or anything, I just don't see why you felt the need to post it here.

PS- Fishy, you should be receiving a PM from me.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by smilkovpetko » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:22 pm

Sorry JC to interfere in this topic .

i would like to mention last thing :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_jBM9Jkpk
Uploaded on Nov 5, 2006

watch at 6:29
this guy crit with melee swing that proc vengeance
he use consecration and his consecration tick 58
then he use seal of the crusade (attack power)
then he use consecration tick 50
then he use seal of wisdom (non attack power)
he got vengeance proc and consecrate tick again 58
he consecrate using seal of wisdom and vengeance
his consecrate tick again 58
his vengeance runs off
his consecrate tick again 50


Consecration indeed suppose to change it's damage and not stay static even if you weapon swap , have procs etc .

(weapon swapping will reduce the damage ticks by consecration) .

i will test this in server and will report.
This will fix the incorrect tanking and will have slight increase to Retribution Paladins DPS (due to procs).
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by Cysthen » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:01 am

This will most likely be the last time I post in this thread, seeing as Duki is replying with Donald Trump Wall styled text I don't want to go down this rabbit hole. Already been down it for a few years prior.

That aside. That specific mention of Broodlord was from a pug, that specific pug believe it or not I ran in without Righteous Fury and didn't buff it until 20 seconds in because I was an idiot.

I tanked Broodlord with my guild Chainpull every week and my aggro was fine and damage intake was fine.

Duki's mention of Consecration scaling is true, but what he didn't mention was that Improved Righteous Fury talent was bugged until they fixed Consecration with said "Core Merge".

Long story short Consecrations damage was halved, but our threat pretty much doubled relatively due to the talent fix.

With that in mind having an idea of how much damage things do here because I am a regular raider on Nostalrius is that YOU DON'T NEED DEFENSE CAP.

This is coming from someone who has done it on a server where enemies hit harder.

I also tanked a Noth Corner, with styleens and armament. WITHOUT defense cap. I was at 435 or so because I decided to use Dragonbone Bracers over Icebane for additional avoidance. That being said that was enough defense to not be crit by those mobs as they were not skull level.

For the *CONTENT* you will be used to tank on. Like Vem in bug trio, like Garr in Molten Core, like Gauntlets, like Noth Corners, like adds on Sulf Harbringer, like Golemagg adds, like Nef Phase 1 and 3, like Ouro aoe, like Anub Elite Adds and Aoe, like Maexenna aoe (which can more effectively be done by a T3 Paladin because you are stunned and T3 has more armor), like a Faerlina add.

A VAST MAJORITY of these mobs are not skull level and the ones that will be "ARE NOT CHROMAGGUS".

I'll let you in on a little secret. The only fight that I PERSONALLY would recommend defense cap on for warriors included. Is Chromaggus. (That includes Patchwerk as hateful strike DOESN'T CRIT).
(Warriors also get def cap automatic from wearing good gear). (You don't NEED it to do other fights).

You will never tank Chromaggus. If you get in a endgame CLEAR GUILD that wants to try and let you tank NAXX BOSSES. You will NOT be doing it in PROGRESSION GEAR. You will be in a CLEAR GUILD for a reason wearing BIS. BIS has defense cap. Until then. You don't need defense cap.

End rant.

P.S. That video of mine on youtube was a long time ago and I was a really bad player. I have binds now, as seen in my livestreams.

P.S.S. I don't have a paladin on this server and I don't care to make one, I don't know how spells scale so in that regard I won't talk about threat, but what I will say is damage intake is relative and all of what I say should remain true.

P.S.S.S. If Conc Weapon Swapping doesn't work here someone should post it to the bug tracker. Regardless I tanked up to BWL without Weapon Swapping, it was something I came across later on in my ventures. I used a tank weapon and max consumables.

P.S.S.S.S. Heres a video of me tanking Naxx Trash WITHOUT A SPELL WEAPON, WITHOUT DEFENSE CAP. WITHOUT A RET PALADIN, WITHOUT JUDGE OF CRUSADER.
Noth corner adds don't hit as hard as these, Anub Elite adds hit about as hard.
(I am really bad in this video without binds as well).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3oeb0HIHiY
Last edited by Cysthen on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:10 am

That aside. That specific mention of Broodlord was from a pug, that specific pug believe it or not I ran in without Righteous Fury and didn't buff it until 20 seconds in because I was an idiot.


Oh I definitely agree with you. I just remember the first time I saw myself on Lashlayer I was either 3rd or 2nd on KTM. People were actually surprised and some even whispered me about it. Of course for me to even be decent it takes a LOT more dedication then most classes, plus the fact that BWL+ I might NEED a Retribution Paladin for threat.


Duki's mention of Consecration scaling is true, but what he didn't mention was that Improved Righteous Fury talent was bugged until they fixed Consecration with said "Core Merge".


Even with Core Merge Consecration was still flat 80 dmg/tick without any SP.

With that in mind having an idea of how much damage things do here because I am a regular raider on Nostalrius is that YOU DON'T NEED DEFENSE CAP.


Even for all MC/BWL Bosses? including broodlord and neffarian?

I also tanked a Noth Corner, with styleens and armament. WITHOUT defense cap. I was at 435 or so because I decided to use Dragonbone Bracers over Icebane for additional avoidance. That being said that was enough defense to not be crit by those mobs as they were not skull level.


For the *CONTENT* you will be used to tank on. Like Vem in bug trio, like Garr in Molten Core, like Gauntlets, like Noth Corners, like adds on Sulf Harbringer, like Golemagg adds, like Nef Phase 1 and 3, like Ouro aoe, like Anub Elite Adds and Aoe, like Maexenna aoe (which can more effectively be done by a T3 Paladin because you are stunned and T3 has more armor), like a Faerlina add.


https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg

A VAST MAJORITY of these mobs are not skull level and the ones that will be "ARE NOT CHROMAGGUS".


That's what i am trying to say , i don't talk or care about Trash/Mobs . Def Cap for Boss is mandatory , for trash even as Retribution spec in tank gear you can tank them.

(That includes Patchwerk as hateful strike DOESN'T CRIT).


I already know that, Patchwerk doesn't matter def cap as Soaker but as MainTank it does indeed matter as he will always crit MT.

You will never tank Chromaggus. If you get in a endgame CLEAR GUILD that wants to try and let you tank NAXX BOSSES. You will NOT be doing it in PROGRESSION GEAR. You will be in a CLEAR GUILD for a reason wearing BIS. BIS has defense cap. Until then. You don't need defense cap.


See the problem there is , you are trying to Guide people while you mention "you can't do that unless full bis gear" which in fact is very wrong .

Using Def Cap and MC/ZG gear + Ench + wail of banshee (for enrage) supported by druid insect swarm will make Chromaggus piece of cake for surviving using Greater Stoneshield Potion (which if you are using weapon swap won't work due to aggro) .

That's been said , i tanked every possible "Hard Bosses" in Progression Gear where i was Def Cap and this made it possible , you are just proving here how bad your guide would end up missleading people by telling them "def cap is not needed" if they want to tank Progression Boss using Progression Gear.

P.S.S. I don't have a paladin on this server and I don't care to make one, I don't know how spells scale so in that regard I won't talk about threat,


Well you just came here by telling "conc swapping" when you don't even know that this is not Peenix and Consecration here will not tick 150 Dmg , neither have flat 80 dmg without ap/sp.

P.S.S.S. If Conc Weapon Swapping doesn't work here someone should post it to the bug tracker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_jBM9Jkpk
Uploaded on Nov 5, 2006

Consecration Weapon Swapping according to Retail should not work like it did in Peenix , it suppose to reduce damage done if you swap weapon , this exist even in retail , weapon swapping is peenix version only which in blizzlike or vanilla retail wouldn't work.

If you swap weapon (after consecration) the damage should get instantly reduced .

Regardless I tanked up to BWL without Weapon Swapping


Your guide is according to "pre core merge" and you tanked BWL etc when stuffs was not working properly, in this server this wouldn't work at all , SP weapon here is mandatory otherwise your threats will be extremely low no matter what you are trying to do .

Even Theloras have witnessed some Prot Paladins in server tanking and failing in raids due to "extremely low threats" .

P.S.S.S.S. Heres a video of me tanking Naxx Trash WITHOUT A SPELL WEAPON, WITHOUT DEFENSE CAP.


Dude when we talk about Prot Paladins , we are like in 2 different worlds. .... you talk about trash tanking and all the Guide you do is for trash tanking ..

Everything i am trying to poke you at is for overall Tanking and major focus on Boss Tanking , which using your Gearwise won't work at all on 70% of the Bosses in Game especially with DPS like Nostalrius threatwise.

Maybe for Molten Core and some of BWL Bosses doesn't hit strong as Peenix (which makes it lol for us) but still if you go for overall Bosses which include AQ40,Naxx,Chromaggus,Neffarian,Golemagg then Def Cap is Mandatory.

but what I will say is damage intake is relative and all of what I say should remain true.

How can eating Crits be better than Def Cap no matter where or what?! ...

Last thing i will say is that many of the items from your preraid guide doesn't exist in nostalrius.

that;'s been said , you can make pretty awesome creative guide but consecration swapping and using Tank weapon instead SP weapon is just bad in server.

Considering the fact that Consecration should reduce it's damage if you swap weapon (even during its effect suppose to go down and up depend on procs and weapons).
Last edited by smilkovpetko on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by Cysthen » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:18 am

Duki. A Warrior does all that better stop being retarded. The fights I listed actually make sense.

Your tanking bosses in BIS doesn't impress me as you had donated for bis and didn't actually progress with a guild to obtain half those items.

That and my bis list has def cap and higher avoidance. I don't understand your point.

Not only that, every item on my preraid bis list is available on Nostalrius. What item are you referring to, the only one I am not sure about is enchanted thorium, in which case you can use Helm of Awareness, and Warrior's Embrace (or Deathbone Chest).


smilkovpetko wrote:Using Def Cap and MC/ZG gear + Ench + wail of banshee (for enrage) supported by druid insect swarm will make Chromaggus piece of cake for surviving using Greater Stoneshield Potion (which if you are using weapon swap won't work due to aggro)

^Lol.
Last edited by Cysthen on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:50 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:33 am

by Cysthen » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:18 am
Your tanking bosses in BIS doesn't impress me as you had donated for bis and didn't actually progress with a guild to obtain half those items.


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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by Cysthen » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:36 am

Cysthen wrote:Duki. A Warrior does all that better stop being retarded.

Cysthen wrote:Your tanking bosses in BIS doesn't impress me as your not a warrior.

^Fixed to save you embarrassment.

On the real I am going to stop replying now. I don't have time for this I'd rather wingclip with Nightfall.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by ceoddyn » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:03 am

I have lifestealing on aurastone hammer, mainly for pvp and because of the cheap mats, would it be worth to put 30sp on it or could I generate more threat by using 30sp on energetic rod?

I only had the gear to start doing this recently, I will share any videos and advice I can help with.
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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

by smilkovpetko » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:58 am

ceoddyn wrote:I have lifestealing on aurastone hammer, mainly for pvp and because of the cheap mats, would it be worth to put 30sp on it or could I generate more threat by using 30sp on energetic rod?

I only had the gear to start doing this recently, I will share any videos and advice I can help with.


i don't know how good lifestealing scale in nostalrius ,but if it is working blizzlike then 30 SP is more threats , considering the fact that SP increase all our Holy damage thus Holy damage is our threat generator .

Aura Stone > Energetic rod (because of more SP+extra Mp5+extra Int)
If you have under 150 Spell Damage , slower weapon produce more threats , if you have 200+ Spell Damage , faster weapon produce more threats.

Swing speed vs Swing Damage.
Swing Holy damage should be higher or equal to 200 in order to focus on more speed to burst higher threats.

Just Example using SP

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 53#p263215

That was only SoR , but consider JoR scale on much higher amounts which extremely helpful for "Taunt" purposes , Holy Shield which is our top 1 Threat Generator which produces 20% extra threats from the existant "90" % threats.


And as last words :i never seen better weapon enchant or weapon which produce high enough threats for Consecration than SP Weapon (talking about existant equal level gear quality)or SP Weapon Enchant.
(waiting for Crusader to proc in order to use Consecration is bad idea)

Currently in Nostalrius situation (considering bugged ap consecration scaling) threats Values:
SP>Block>AP>Parry>SP HiT>SP Crit>Crit>Mp5>Intellect>Spirit

Q/A:

Q. Why SP?
A. Increase to all abilities "Holy" Damage which produce 90% extra Threats.

Q. Why AP?
A. Because Consecration in Nostalrius is bugged beneficial and scale with Attack Power at equal rate as Spell Power (they both working same)

Q. Why Block?
A. Because our major mana efficient vs threat generator abilities benefit from this stat "Holy Shield" which cost low mana and produce 20% extra Holy Threats and Blessing of Sanctuary which cost 0 mana and produce extra Holy Threats.

Q. Why Parry?
A. Reduces your next swing down to 1.0 Speed and benefit Seal of Righteousness and Physical Hits (that both get increased by One-Handed Weapon Specialization) "currently bug waiting to get fixed".

Q. Why Spell Hit rating?
A. We lack Taunt! Similar version to Taunt is Judgement of Righteousness which damage get reduced by level partial resists , Spell Hit reduce the damage penalty , also Exorcism against Undeads which is top 1 threat generator using low mana benefits same as Judgement of Righteousness

Q. Why Spell Crit ?
A. Similar to Spell Hit but three times more efficient due to extra threat generation not just by the increased damage but the natural critical threat generation explained by Kenco's Guide.

Q. Why Crit ?
A. Don't underestimate the white swings , they might produce low threats but because of one-handed weapon specialization their damage is still high and thus are part of our +threats , maybe on lower scale but each Critical hit benefit extra amount of threats explained by Kenco's Guide.

Q. Why Mp5 at low priority?
A. It is good stat to have but useless compare to mention stats above as the whole situation get solved using Demonic Rune/Dark Rune and Major Mana Potion which are more than enough to handle infinite duration of fight. Still bonus if you have it as extra judge or holy shield is ok.

Q. Why Intellect lowest priority?
A. If you manage good your Consumes , if you have enough Spell Damage , if you have Raid Buffs then this Stat is completely useless considering the fact that you are not Class to spam abilities . Still ok for extra mana to have more control over wasted Consecration at wrong position.
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