Improved Devotion Aura/Redoubt, just a question

[Dr. Doom]

It is a commonly accepted axiom that this tier 1 Prot talent (Imp Devo Aura) is horrible and absolute must-not-take.

I agree it is pretty weak. At 5/5 and max rank Devo aura, you get a grand addition of... 183 armor (my own numbers, decimals skipped). While I suppose it could mean something for clothies, this is a couple of decimal points in damage reduction percentage for plate users at best.
Tanking with a Paladin, preferring Redoubt over this is a pretty easy choice. Redoubt gives you +30% block chance if you just press your X key, and coupled with the Shield Spec it makes for decent mitigation (likely good threat as well if compounded with BoSanc).

However, I've seen a fair deal of retribution and deep holy/healing builds that also pick Redoubt over Improved Devotion Auras, even if they do not use shields at all (some of the paladin healers use regular off-hands like the AV exalted +healing item), as a path to get Precision or BoK/Guardians' Favour respectively, even if Shield Spec isn't picked.

My obvious question here is, why? Redoubt does literally nothing in this case.

For deep Holy/healer paladins, those wearing pure +healing cloth and leather and a non-shield offhand, the Improved Devotion Aura at least adds something (even if really minor) to the tank they're teaming with if he's about to face a heavy hitter mob, or maybe to protect oneself if getting attacked as a way to compensate for the squishyness resulting from wearing such gear. Redoubt just does nothing for you nor anyone in the team.

While retribution paladins will probably be using Sanctity Aura most of the time, I suppose there will be off moments when in order to counter damage spikes, you can swap to Devotion Aura for a 915 or so armor increase. The only thing Redoubt does for you is allow for a reck charge counter, which is something that doesn't even count for non-reckoning retribution paladins.

Is this preference a thing because paladins should keep a shield in their bags for defense, and you swap to it when getting attacked, thus profitting of the Redoubt proc? I am not seeing any other reason.

[Theloras]

1. Redoubt gives an audible sound so it helps Reck spec Paladins know that they have a Reckoning charge on top of the Reck Counter add-on.

2. Redoubt is very good for Ret Paladins when they AoE tank in 5/10 man dungeons or in 20/40 man raids as you don't need to be crit/crush capped to do either.

3. Redoubt is simply GODLY if you are also an engineer with Force Reactive Disc.

[smilkovpetko]

Redoubt is good for PVP Holy Paladin , Reckbomb Paladin for stacks, Deep Retribution too for some certain purposes such as AoE in Raids and/or Survive in PVP with "weapon swapping" depend what they face against or Flag Carry etc , Redoubt for PVE/PVP Tank is must due to "Shield absorbtion" making him Block (not % of Block but Blocked Damage amount) Tremendous amount of Damage .

Holy PVE that min/max and uses cloth etc suppose to go for Devo Aura as he will support others with this as Redoubt is useless for them.

my 2 cents.

[earelith]

Maybe they use shield when they go solo to stuff(holy paladins)? I dunno just guessing

[JCarrill0]

you don't need to be crit/crush capped to do either.

its a bit off topic, but I thought vanilla 440 was def cap, that made you immune to crit, but crush immune was a TBC thing once you got 490 Def.
Can anyone confirm that def cap makes you crush immune as well?

[Dr. Doom]

you don't need to be crit/crush capped to do either.

its a bit off topic, but I thought vanilla 440 was def cap, that made you immune to crit, but crush immune was a TBC thing once you got 490 Def.
Can anyone confirm that def cap makes you crush immune as well?

It doesn't. No. That's why warriors are only crush immune when shield block is up, and only when it is, (pushing crushing blows out of the level 63 mob/boss attack table), and any other class, paladin included, never really is.

You are correct. What people call 'def cap' here, is really just the point where you are crit immune. Def continues to add to your miss/parry/dodge chance beyond 440.

[smilkovpetko]

the only way to reduce crush to small amount or "called 0 point" is armor , once you have enough armor for the raid standard you will eat maximum 1k crush which is just joke dmg.

[JCarrill0]

the only way to reduce crush to small amount or "called 0 point" is armor , once you have enough armor for the raid standard you will eat maximum 1k crush which is just joke dmg.

You mean Armor Cap? Is that even a thing in Vanilla? lol

[Dr. Doom]

the only way to reduce crush to small amount or "called 0 point" is armor , once you have enough armor for the raid standard you will eat maximum 1k crush which is just joke dmg.

You mean Armor Cap? Is that even a thing in Vanilla? lol

I saw a druid with something like 74% or something reduction, by being above 15k armor. Considering that armor reduction caps at 75%, I'd say with some more gear from AQ and Naxxramas, he could potentially reach it.

[JCarrill0]

the only way to reduce crush to small amount or "called 0 point" is armor , once you have enough armor for the raid standard you will eat maximum 1k crush which is just joke dmg.

You mean Armor Cap? Is that even a thing in Vanilla? lol

I saw a druid with something like 74% or something reduction, by being above 15k armor. Considering that armor reduction caps at 75%, I'd say with some more gear from AQ and Naxxramas, he could potentially reach it.

but considering this is about Paladins... That is why I commented