Regarding Battlegrounds on Nostalrius

[Ohhgee]

PREFACE: The first changes to BG queues on Nostalrius happened in late July/early August, during the last couple weeks of my ranking experience. Since that time i have been (overly) active on the PvP forums regarding the issues. This post is my attempt to express ideas/feelings that are shared by a large portion of the community that may not speak English as a first language and have the ability to write a massive wall of text. ANYWAY...

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Vanilla is not balanced in any way shape or form compared to other xpacks or other MMO's. We are playing an 11 year old game on a private server for a reason. Everyone has their own reason; for me it's the sense of community and the way servers develop their own unique stories over the course of the content, and for the quirky nature of the PvP mechanics.

All of that being said, the Vanilla PvP system is no different than any other aspect of Vanilla. It is designed to reward players that:
1. Devote a large amount of time to working towards a feat within the game
2. Play with a group that is ideal in terms of class composition and has as many geared/try hard/nerdy/consumable spamming players as possible
3. Have an acute awareness of how the static aspects of the game function (in this case, the Honor System)

If you are looking for a game that rewards "skill" above all, then you should be playing CounterStrike, DotA, or at least a TBC/WotLK server. Sorry but this is just a fact. There are far too many people in the Nost forum community that seem to constantly complain about the very NATURE of Vanilla. Nobody is forcing you to play an 11 year old, highly imperfect game. You can go play something else any time you want.

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A Blizzlike queue system with NO multiqueue is the best option to have enjoyable PvP for all players while still keeping the vanilla in Vanilla. (Coincidentally, on a server this large, this system would also be as close as the Honor System possibly could come to being skill based, because the top standings would be earned by whichever premade could consistently beat ALL the enemy premades.) With Blizzlike queues and no multiqueue, it would be impossible to dodge or Wintrade for high standings, and PuG players would be ensured full matches and frequent PuG vs PuG games. (When premades get stuck in long stalemate games PuG players tend to synchronize within the queue.) Some people will quote me here and say "that's bullshit, with the original queue system I got farmed by premades every game." My response is that the original queue system featured multiqueue, which was abused massively by shitty premades to dodge other groups and ensure that they only fought PuGs (cough Noggen cough). The amount of premade v PuG stomps was drastically increased by these dodgers.

I understand that the intention of Nost's queue changes has been to force premades to fight each other, but the effects have been toxic. After queues were changed the 1st time, we had 6-7 weeks of people earning free top 10 standings by exploiting the prem v prem queue to Wintrade. Now that multi queue has been removed, both premading *properly* AND wintrading are dead, and the result is Healing classes have disappeared from BG's and the amount of Chinese farm/AFK leeching players has skyrocketed.

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Every attempt by Nost to tamper with the queue system has ONLY resulted in Battlegrounds becoming toxic and the Honor System being EVEN LESS skill based than it was designed to be.

Give us Blizzlike queues and no multiqueue. Stop breaking an 11 year old video game.

This change needs to happen, and once it does happen, people who are unhappy with it simply need to play a different game.

over & out

[snawfu]

I'd say this sounds about right. With Horde's current defeatist attitude they won't even form a premade to stomp the shitty chinapremade and instead rather just get farmed in soloq. I understand this is not optimal honorgain to fight the same people over and over and this is largely due to fault of the premade v premade que that is forced on us.

It also creates a major imbalance in the factions because Alliance, as before, has less people queing in so most of the time Horde PUGs will face a premade regardless and get farmed in a quick 5-0 game.

[PhilipRed]

If we have to change something from original Blizzlike system, i vote for not allowing group queue, and quick bans for countdown premaders. Keep multiqueue up.

If you want to keep premades up, make an exclusive queue for them, never face pugs, this wont be honor efficient, but teams would be able to face each other for the fun.

Everybody will have to pug, this will help the majority of players to have more fun; premaders will be angry, but who cares, since they are ruinning many others fun from the beggining.

[Ohhgee]

If we have to change something from original Blizzlike system, i vote for not allowing group queue, and quick bans for countdown premaders. Keep multiqueue up.

If you want to keep premades up, make an exclusive queue for them, never face pugs, this wont be honor efficient, but teams would be able to face each other for the fun.

Everybody will have to pug, this will help the majority of players to have more fun; premaders will be angry, but who cares, since they are ruinning many others fun from the beggining.

Ban countdown queuers? Seriously? Not even worth responding to that statement.

An "exclusive queue for premades" is EXACTLY what was done in the 1st queue change and the result was rampant wintrading.

"Everybody being forced to PuG" is *basically* what we have now, and the result is nobody playing Healers and AFK leechers dominating Honor.

What is so hard to understand here?

[PhilipRed]

Horde side is forced to pug, not alliance side, afkers & leechers become more comon because of being farmed time after time. what do you think ppl did with blizzlike original system when they faced a premade? going afk. Now horde faces a lot of premades they go afk game after game, sometimes they just dont play even against pugs.

Exclusive queue for premades, disabling multiqueue, forgot to state that.

If theres a queue exclusive for PuG, countdown premades are an obvious abuse and should be banned.

If the system is rotten from the inside (what is obvious) Premades are the worse (and in the other hand, logical) consequence of this system. They dont really have fun, they ruin many many others fun, they move in a pvp enviorement but they dont pvp and dont let others pvp.

If we are able to find a way to abolish premades, and making just pug games, this stupid pvp system could be a bit more fun.

[Kajal]

actually not.
the real problem is not that alliance got premades. the problem is that horde have none and actually if horde want ALL pug vs pug game just need more premades than ally side so allies would be forced in pugging to not get ALL premade games. the idea in the custom fix to get prem vs prem game was good but just turned out all wrong due to dodge/wintrading before and now to force horde rankers to pug to get more honor/hour.
with the bliz que with no multique we horde side can build our premade and get prem v prem or prem v pug, u can even que up as 3-4-5-6-7 ppl and still get your match. hordies now simply can t premade cuz they will just run into the allies premades without getting a single pug game and on the long term they will just get outfarmed by ppl who afk/leech/nosleep/account share/whatever u want get pug v pug game.
with the bliz que the guys who can play the most and actually win the most get rank1. china ally premade is by far the worst premade running on this server and they are rank1 cuz they can play 24hours a day. if they will be forced to some premade games i m sure they ll lose their spot cuz other allies premades running are by far better.
in every game i play actually i got from 3 to 6-7 afk even in game i win. i can understand some ppl turn afk when they see premade but actually the ppl who turn afk in the most cases are always the same and they can get top standing with zero effort (most are rank 9+). the pvp system we are currently in just reward this kind of player who can just stay logged in the most.
in a scenario when i can premade or just play with a small group of friends and actually win the most games i play i will outfarm afker/leecher/nosleep by playing way less time.
my point of view horde side.

[PhilipRed]

actually not.
the real problem is not that alliance got premades. the problem is that horde have none

Its like what NRA says, "give guns to every1 so if some1 tryes to kill you youll be defended", instead of "remove guns".

Changing queues so horde can also premade will make it harder for puggers on both sides, alliances will get farmed, and hordes will get their honor cap raised (appart from still being farmed).

The usual answer about this "premade yourself" is not valid, there are many players that are not rankers and dont have the time/will to do this, actually most of players are in this situation... these people is being farmed and they are getting no fun from pvp because of this honor farmers, who actually dont pvp and dont let others to do so. These people is usually very active interacting with a huge ammount of players, stealing fun from all of them.

So i say, remove guns instead of giving guns to every1, since there will be a vast majority that wont have any guns at all.

[vathdaar]

Ohgee dont waste your time answering to PhilipRed, as far as we have seen from his posts he must be some backpedaling enhancement shaman pug who plays 1 hour a week and believes he deserves rank 14 so he goes full rampant in " BAN EVERYONE WHO WINS ME" ( which is everyone).

On topic: Your post resumes perfectly how the scenario has been until now and the ideas you suggest in my opinion would make a much healthier server for everyone ( pugs and premades) since the pugs will have a higher chance to face other pugs and the premades would only succeed if they are actually good organised/skilled ( otherwise they will barely win pugs, which on the other hand prizes them for bieng able to form a group, which pugs dont for whatever reason).

For anyone who claims prem vs prems are just for fun clearly didnt understand the system of vanilla and should crawl back to panda and ride a flying carpet. Peace.

[Azuros]

The usual answer about this "premade yourself" is not valid, there are many players that are not rankers and dont have the time/will to do this, actually most of players are in this situation...

Coincidentally vanilla wow is catered towards the demographic that DO put in the time and have the will to go out and do that. Those players should be rewarded accordingly.

Agree with ohgee, having seen all different types of PvP changes implemented on nost and others servers. No multiqueue and allowing premades to queue freely is the best option for all involved, wether you rank or not, with or without pug.

[PhilipRed]

Im not telling give rank 14 just playing few hours a week, those guys that play 12-14 h a day should still get their rank 14, im just saying they should fight for it each BG not allowing honor farming by premades, so every1, even those guys that play 2-3 h a day, really get some pvp when they join a BG. We all know that Honor farming in premades is not pvp.

So the one who play the most will still get higher ranks while not destroying other ppl fun.