Cost respe or not ? again

[ironsides]

I don't necessarily agree with you here.

I've spoken to numerous people that have already quit ED, yet log in every once in a while to check in. Yet even then they speak of wanting to PvP a bit but ultimately end up not doing it because they don't want to lose their R5-8, even if they don't even actively play on the server anymore.
The ability to freeze your rank whenever has changed the entire mindset of players on the server.

I think you'll find that a lot of people do a few days of (casual) PvP a week even with 50g respec costs, as long as you can not maintain a rank for eternity by simply not PvPing. Especially people that want access to the R6 potions.

It's possible that wanting "Knight" in your title forever is a deterrent, but I'm a bit skeptical on the pvp potion reason. Not saying they didn't use that as a reason for wanting to rank freeze, but the rank 6 healing potions sell for about 8s each, and on ED's AH currently, you can buy them cheaper than from a vendor (and with no unique cap). There weren't any mana potions for me to compare there, but I feel like they would be used less as they should be capped at 5 unique mana potions. Just sounds like they were looking for any reason not to pvp.

I know the 50g cap on this server has influenced the players in the small group I'm rolling here with what class they're deciding to play (myself included), and it's primarily because we know we would be respeccing constantly outside of raids to pvp.

[Hatson]

Rank freezing means nothing to a server that can get R14 comparable gear so easy. The vast majority of pvpers won't even see rank 10/go beyond it, and BWL is far more accessible to the common player

But now you're also taking into factor the progression of content.
You have to realize that BWL won't be out for quite some time. And that items such as PvP gear and sets as well as the dungeon and raid content itself, a lot of it is in pre-buff state (or nerf, whatever you want to call it) - comparable to what it was during early vanilla retail.
You can't just rush to R14 here and get a weapon that overpowers any other item by a million miles, because the R14 weapons will be in their old state before they got buffed with the release of BWL.

People will have a long time to get ranks before BWL ever sees the light of day, and you would never need a picture perfect PvP or PvE spec to do any of the content before BWL. And that's a fact.
But if you so badly want to, then you will have to do the respec gold sink.
And to be honest, it's not that much money if you know how to use your professions. As an alchemist, Enchanter, or really any gathering profession, you can easily make money for it.

[ironsides]

But now you're also taking into factor the progression of content.
You have to realize that BWL won't be out for quite some time.

You overestimate the difficulty of these unbuffed raids and underestimate the size of the socks players are willing to poop into. I'd be shocked if MC remains uncleared 3 months after server release. Given that this server won't have 30% raid boss hp buffs and a working Mind Control advantage, 2 months seems likely. And since the server is running a scheduled release system with 2 months post content clear, we will be seeing BWL 4-5 months after the server has released.

In the private server scene, that isn't very long at all.

[Thrashing]

I know the 50g cap on this server has influenced the players in the small group I'm rolling here with what class they're deciding to play (myself included), and it's primarily because we know we would be respeccing constantly outside of raids to pvp.

I personally haven't heard anyone state respec costs as a reason not to PvP on ED.

Myself, I've been raiding as PvP spec for the past 2 years or so. I know a lot of other that have done the same and I also know people that simply PvP in PvE spec.

From my experience the respec cost is neglectable as a reason in comparison to rank freezing.

[ironsides]

I personally haven't heard anyone state respec costs as a reason not to PvP on ED.

Myself, I've been raiding as PvP spec for the past 2 years or so. I know a lot of other that have done the same and I also know people that simply PvP in PvE spec.

From my experience the respec cost is neglectable as a reason in comparison to rank freezing.

It might be an alliance-only anomaly. I probably would raid as MS if I was horde and had access to WF too.

But if people just pvp in their pve spec, or just raid as pvp, that brings the issue of why 50g in the first place, since they're fine with only using 1 spec. The "gold sink" doesn't exist.

[ZanathKariashi]

Trust me when I say that with a 50g cap, you will actually just have people saying "fuck pvp" when faced with the task of farming 100g on top of raid consumables per week.

Take it as "my anecdotal evidence" or not, but it will happen. Even on ED where gold inflation is out of control it is still "too much" for many raiders. And what happens to the "50g gold sink" if no one ever uses it? Pvp population dwindles, and gold doesn't leave the system.

"usage of skills and gear are much more important". As the game enters into the BWL period, many classes rely on their pvp spec to not get immediately destroyed by other classes with BWL gear. Spec gives a player more options so they aren't immediately overwhelmed by their opponents gear. If they can't change to that spec, they won't pvp. Mage without ice barrier/block? Dead by a random multishot. Fury warrior who has 3500 hp so he actually has enough hit to generate rage? Fish in a barrel. Spec is incredibly important, and this decision will make Nostalrius' pvp scene grind towards ED's current scene, which is fucking awful, if you didn't know.

Sure, you can do hybrid specs like the one you suggested. But if you told me to go pvp without piercing howl with my latency as a US player, I'd laugh in your face.

p.s., paladins can tank most fights no problem, they just need a lot of consumables/BWL to make work.

edit: TL,DR: You need as MANY pvpers in the system as you can possibly muster to avoid premade exploitation. 50g respec cap will take many pvpers out. This will put Nostalrius' pvp in the same state as ED is in, maybe worse.

It won't. It didn't in classic, it didn't on rebirth, and it won't on here. ED is Feenix, and attracts the sort of people who want luxury and easy living. The type of people who never wanted a legit classic experience to begin with.

As mentioned, Raiders quickly end up with so much gold they have literally nothing to spend it on. If they're simply hording it for the sake of hording it, then they have other mental issues not related to the game that they should seek help with. Historically, the entire reason for a twink market was bored raiders with literally nothing to spend their useless gold on, since they'd hit the point where the only things they needed were raid drops, and this is considering that they were double respecing every week just to squeeze out that extra little bit of efficiency that only mattered in the closest of fights on top of paying huge prices for tweak gear/enchants just to have something to spend the gold on.

[ironsides]

Raiders don't make money from raiding unless herbs are dirt cheap, because people die in raids, raids get wiped, and trash takes a while to clear. They are constantly spending money on consumables.

You make a lot of weird assumptions about the playerbase of ED and RB, and all wrong. I kinda wish muggle didn't pull the plug on your containment server.

[ZanathKariashi]

As an actual Classic raider, I know how it works, thanks much (full cleared Naxx pre-TBC). Unless you are in a terrible guild, you do not pay for consumables, they are guild supplied using a requisition system. You pay in X amount of resources based on your professions (or pay in cloth/rep items/fish, while crafting things he guild sends you mats to make, if you don't have a non-2ndry gathering prof), and get allotted X amount of resource to "buy" consumables from the raid bank with. Most guilds will also allot a repair allowance, out of funds gained from selling excess materials/items, on a per boss killed system as well as a loyalty rewards program to encourage to encourage raiders to show up on time and be there every week.

And early on, when you're in active progression, pvp is the LEAST of your worries as a raider, and if you aren't a raider, you're in a pvp spec 24/7 so the respec cost doesn't matter even then. The early days are spent gearing up constantly and gather materials for the guild bank, hunting required formulas, etc.

No time at all for pvp to be found there, unless it happens out in the world, which that is pretty irrelevant since solo pvp is ALWAYS imbalanced and your class either is or isn't a hard-counter to what's attacking you (or you get ganked which you're just SOL). And once you've actually started raiding, you're still utilizing your time filling production quotas or farming required rep items.

But here's the thing....if you're a responsible guild member, you'll be keeping your weekly farm quotas filled like clockwork, and you earn A LOT of gold from selling whatever excess items you don't need to turn in to the guild.

So yes, actually raiders do make A LOT of gold. But it's not from the bosses directly, it's from being in a well organized raiding guild that reduces the severity of their expenditures, leaving them more of the money they get while doing their non-raid activities.

----------------------

Any guild that tries to buy it's consumables instead of farming the recipes for it's own members to be selfsufficient is a disorganized mess and is suspect at best for it's quality of leadership. (this also applies to any guild that NEEDS to beg someone for a UBRS key (as much as I did enjoy charging 30g+ just for opening the door for them))

[ironsides]

Out of that entire rant, I'm not sure what is least believable. The socialist tiered regime straight out of a Stormlords recruitment macro, or the "cleared Naxx pre-tbc and still playing on 1.12 realms" claim.

[ZanathKariashi]

You want to know why? Because I didn't get my Atiesh. Nothing else, my one biggest regret about wow in general. If i could've traded that Battletank for the staff, I would've done so in a heart-beat.

I won the roll among class leaders to be our scepter bearer during the AQ opening, so i was excluded from rolling for order for making Atiesh and had to go last, which led all the way into TBC before I finally was eligible to start collecting splinters, and not long after that the guild basically imploded over the dispute of some raiders not wanting to upgrade to TBC and others that wanted move on and do TBC, and at that point, we had the GM (priest class leader), his girlfriend, and their friend (the mage class leader) disband the guild and server swap to Medivh. And that was the end of that. Aside from the occasional pug that managed to down a few bosses, I never got close to another full clear since there just weren't many guilds bothering to run Naxx at that point, and once it was announced that Naxx would be removed with Wrath coming out, the few guilds good enough to run it all ended up tapped out or had splinters on reserve. I ended up sitting at 37 splinters for 3 months due to no luck at finding groups or just terrible luck on RNG, and no amount of gold i threw at people (I had around 60k in personal assets at that time since I simply didn't have much I wanted to spend it on, and blew basically all it of pretty much buying raid spots that ended up not dropping any splinters at all. My druid still has his 37 splinters in his bank as a reminder of that failure and why i haven't bothered with any legendary since. Whats to say it won't be removed as soon as I start the worst grindy part of it?.

You mean the system that every guild worth a damn uses (because you CANNOT raid regularly if you depend on outside sources for critical materials. Someone will always come up short and hurt the run and no amount of dkp penalties can fix it)?

We even had a custom add-on with script-extender support that allowed real-time monitoring of the guild bank supplies (every time the bank toons would open their bank it would snapshot and every time it closed it would snap shot) that automatically fed into a website database spreadsheet that would build quota lists weekly for easy resource accumulation to keep raid supplies in a surplus state (TBC later added api support so that similar addons could be made without the extra extenders needed).

You could go over the quota if you wanted to, but the requisition value dropped by half once the quota was met (since excess materials were simply sold on the AH).

Guild repairs were also handled from the guild bank, where every boss downed would award you 10g for repairs. And showing up on time (standing at the portal, ready to raid (which meant you needed to get your item request form in to the Quartermaster at least an hour and 30 minutes prior to the raid so you could pick them up in the mail), 10 minutes prior to the official start of the raid) and being there every week each added another 5G (you needed to raid at least 2 weeks in a row to start earning the extra 5g). If you had any left over at the end of the week, it was halved and added to the next weeks allotment, as a bonus for not wiping that much that week. But if you didn't raid the next week, you lost the bonus.