Adjust Raid difficulty for blizzlike feeling!

[justclassic]

Hey everybody,

at first apologize for my not so perfect english as it isnt my first language.

I want to suggest that the raid difficulty should be adjusted for more blizzlike feeling.

Raiding in vanilla wasnt designed to be challenging,like bringing people to their limits. It was designed as endgame content people could strive for when they hit 60 and finished running dungeons. The difficulty in Vanilla raiding was that most people were very unexperienced with WoW or MMO's in general. Only few players strived to do their best or optimize their characters to the best. Close to noone knew or cared about theorycrafting. So back in the days raids were "kinda" challenging but not because of difficult bossmechanics, rather then peoples mentality back then.

Still people cared about killing bosses and you could feel the pure joy when a new boss was downed. I remember it took us several evenings to kill lucifron back then and we all screamed when we finally killed him.


In the last 10 years many things have changed. Also the players experience and mentality changed. People are experienced in their clases, most of them know what items to use or what buttons to press. Also they strive for optimizing their characters.

This results in Raidcontent being way easier then most people remebered.

Id love to see a change in difficulty for Raids. I would suggest that every bossfight should see a 100% increase of HP.

- It is very low dev work involved in increasing a mobs HP. All Bosses in MC could be adjustet in like 30 minutes.

- Guilds would actually progress MC and not just steamroll through it.

- I know that that wouldn't be blizzlike, but I'd prefer a blizzlike-feeling over something being exactly blizzlike.

- Guilds actually interested in racing for server first may wont need to raid maxhours on the first day of content release, as bosses might not end up dieing in 1-5 atempts.

- Raiding would start to be more about skill then time invested, though time would still be an important factor.

- People would again feel the feeling of achieving something after killing bosses.

- I dont think that this would force non-optimal classes out of raid pools as their dmg did increase with the experience/knowledge as well. So there wouldn't need to be classstacking in order to achieve something.

- If Boss kills become harder recieving a rare item will actually mean something. I think everybody rememberes soemone from his old server with that one item nobody but him had.



I'd love to hear some opinions on this. If you dont like the idea please elaborate on why.

So far justclassic

p.s. Im not even 60 yet but i played on several privat classic server so far and this topic was bothering me all the time so I thought id throw it in to the room

[Strife]

I want harder raids in vanilla too, but last time I brought this up most people didn't like the idea for whatever reason. Honestly all content before twin emps/c'thun is a complete joke compared to most of the tiers release from BC onwards, MC is almost tuned as easy as LFR on retail by default.

Perhaps people are afraid their guild will fall behind because they will get stuck on a boss for weeks and not get the loot. Or people just want the raids to be easy so they can get their gear quickly and pvp instead of bothering with a pve challenge. Or people are so hellbent on "blizzlike" that even a change that would make the experience more blizzlike is unacceptable purely because the way it was implemented was not done by blizzard.

Idk what the reason is but I thought most people who play on these servers are sick of easy mode facebook retail as they put it and want the more hardcore experience. Well how about we start with the raids, which is the biggest disappointment for me on classic servers. Because I certainly remember struggling a lot more on this content when it was current on retail compared to now.

[Skuggor]

Thing is, MC wasn't ever difficult. The hard stuff with MC was to bring 40 players together in cohesion. Plus, everyone was a complete noob. Look at the world first ragnaros ! wtf this guy doing ? Most people were playing a point and click game. Add to that the shittiness of the specs trees, and you've got real difficulty.
And even if you get back to the old specs, well, players adapt, Ragnaros doesn't : 10 years of awaking to soon. 10 years Executus is still in MC not getting fired. 10 years he dies once per week.

Nowadays ? 10 years of experience. 10 years of videos. 10 years of macros. 10 years of pexing, grinding, and farming. 10 years of PvP.

Talking about PvP, yeah that's the opposite of the OP"s thread, that's maybe the only thing that remains "difficult", because players evolve.

[Wraith§Reaver]

"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"

[Rinzler]

Have you killed a boss yet?

[justclassic]

Thing is, MC wasn't ever difficult. The hard stuff with MC was to bring 40 players together in cohesion. Plus, everyone was a complete noob. Look at the world first ragnaros ! wtf this guy doing ? Most people were playing a point and click game. Add to that the shittiness of the specs trees, and you've got real difficulty.
And even if you get back to the old specs, well, players adapt, Ragnaros doesn't : 10 years of awaking to soon. 10 years Executus is still in MC not getting fired. 10 years he dies once per week.

Correct, we cant go back as people wont unlearn things. But we can change the Content only a little bit to make it feel like before.

Have you killed a boss yet?

Seems like you haven't red my post entirely.

Like I said I am not even 60 yet but i played on several classic servers and that was allways something that bothered me, so I came up with this post.

[Exzes]

To me it seems like you missed out the fact that normaly MC/ony and others are post-nerf on other private vanilla Servers, here with most of the pre-raid BiS items not available and the terrible stats on MC-Drops (only Basic stats on druid/pala for example or +4firespelldamage on Mage Tier) MC is hard enough.

Once Nostalrius goes past the current 1.4 state, you would be right, after that MC would be cake and would Need a buff to be somewhat exiting.

Bear in mind on some other private Servers where Content is buffed to be more exiting Lucifron still was killed in 17 seconds the fastest time.

[nervous]

We've already cleared MC with 8 debuff slots, and shit gear. Tuning raid HP upwards by 30% (feenix's numbers) or doing it up 50% hp and 50% more damage (scriptcrafts numbers) or even doubling the hp (OPs numbers) doesn't change anything different about the fight but instead adds a bigger gear block to raids.

Doing that will do nothing but hurt lower geared people/people not willing to farm consumables for raids and increase the gap between casual and poopsock guilds.

Wait until the more casual guilds start dipping their feet in before making any judgements about raid tuning. GRIZZLY and NOPE are not good measures to set the bar at.

[BK2710]

maybe more spells for the bosses or smth, I'd love harder content.

[themagoo]

Before thinking add Hp or news skills to bosses we should think about scripts !

Did you see the nostalrius ragnaros videos ?

NOPE finally killed him whitout tank.. Which back on retail was impossible because ragna is suppose to one shot casters one by one when there isnt a tank near him. On nostalrius hes just keep targetting ppl without send a single blast..

And some ppl told me he doesnt bump tank every 30 sec like is suppose to do (but im not sure about this last point)

That's all guys.. I hope I am wrong really, because if not, pvehl is pretty screwd on this server which is really sad cause I love the devs work and what they do everyday.

Cya

Ps: sorry english isnt my first language too