Healing threat.

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Re: Healing threat.

by Pottu » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:37 pm

Walthern wrote:Hello, I have noticed that if you cast renew on someone before they enter combat, you will still generate threat from it after they enter combat. I spent long time on my priest raiding in vanilla always used to cast renew before warrior pulled and got no aggro from that.

This sentence and
Stalk wrote:
You only generate threat (at all from anything) when you're flagged in combat, because otherwise you don't have an entry on the mob's threat table. Therefore pre-HoTting generates no threat on any non-Boss fight up till the point where you engage in combat. Bosses combat-pulse the instance so you're immediately on his table when the tank engages.


Source: http://www.plusheal.com/forum/m/1833799 ... threat-you

that quote are not conflicting. They are actually saying the very same thing.

Renew or any other HoT creates no threat until the tank pulls a mob. As soon as the HoT then ticks, the healer who cast it is flagged for combat and the HoT generates aoe threat to every mob involved in the fight. As this is a small amount, it can be countered by Battle Shout.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Taladril » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:19 am

Pottu, I also remember prehealing not being threat and that was a tactic that I used in dungeons and raids frequently. My anecdotal evidence is that I was only a healer in vanilla. I didn't play TBC and in Wrath I played a hunter, so all of my healing knowledge is only vanilla.
I think the point was not that the threat was there, but that a spell cast on a person loses ownership if it is cast out of combat. Yes there may be a rejuv on a warrior, however the mob doesn't see that rejuv as belonging to the druid if the druid cast the spell before combat began. Any kind of prehealing, as long as it happens before combat starts should not agro the healer.

I can also enlighten people with a very little known fact that I was quite fascinated with. Certain buffs if applied to ALL party members changes a bosses mechanic. As a dwarf priest (again only in vanilla) if I were to fear ward every single party member, then bosses that use fear mechanics didn't use them. I always thought it was probably because the boss interpreted us as all being immune. Even though we weren't "immune" but only for one shot. Regardless fear could be skipped like that.
In vanilla I tested that on Dextren Ward in the Stockades. If I fear warded 1 to 4 people he would do his standard fear. If I fear warded all 5 people he would not ever fear. I always wondered if that would be something that could be done in a raiding situation but you'd need a lot of dwarf priests because of the cooldown.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Shay » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:22 pm

I played a healer exclusively in retail vanilla and I can confirm that a heal cast out of combat would not generate aggro for the duration of the spell (even ticks that occurred after entering combat). Pre hotting was something that I did prior to almost every pull so I remember the mechanic very well, and I noticed immediately that it doesn't work the same way as retail on nost and other pservers.

edit: A little more info - I think the reason it worked this way was because you were not pulled into combat when your target engaged. This means you could pre-hot, sit and drink, and not gain any aggro from hot ticks until you decided to enter combat (by healing someone already in combat or attacking).
Last edited by Shay on Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Ziphr » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:36 pm

also confirming as a healer from vanilla a hot cast before combat did not flag the caster for combat or generate healing aggro. As a resto druid I made much use of that mechanic as it was one of few methods druids could use to "manage" healing threat by mitigating healing needed by prehotting

This discussion surfaced in my old guild as well. There are sources out there that verify this, but its a pretty obscure subject and not often referenced


Honestly I had always assumed nost knew this was a not blizzlike mechanic and had their reasons for not addressing it
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Re: Healing threat.

by smilkovpetko » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:55 am

i believe there is problem with healing threat, not sure at what point as myself i never been playing as healer.

The problem i notice is for example :

Damage dealers are nowhere near my aggro as tank even those that do 500-600 DPS (which is not some joke numbers).

Healer for example priest and druid are always 2nd in my threat list more than 600 DPS (damage dealers).

This is little funny for me as this was never issue or problem in retail , it might be bugged but i don't know as i never investigated this already. (i am pretty sure there is some problem with healing threats).


BUT !

What i already investigate and i would love to get fixed fast as possible is this :

https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/t ... oup_id=101

it is main issue for 2 points :

1- If Warrior taunt get resisted , healer have chance 90% to die.
2- Paladins don't have taunts and this is gamebreaking issue.

https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/t ... oup_id=101
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Re: Healing threat.

by Imbaslap » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:21 pm

either way you look at it, threat mechanics are boinked on this server. you will see an increase of issues rising during Naxxramas. Pre-healing ooc was a tactic used in vanilla to hot up tanks prior to an engagement. I can't wait to see razuvious on Nost with all the threat issues and mind control issues already present. to not get off topic however there is proof shown that threat needs another look for this server. for example, the threat building up on targets who are CC'ed. when a target is incapable of moving/attacking/unable to be controlled, the threat table is paused with it. not continuously running in the background because the players are in combat with the mob. this may be a bigger issue then it seems, considering how it could be an issue with mangos zero in general.

tldr: don't expect a core change to be fixed overnight.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Softarunt » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:01 am

Pretty sure "pre-hotting" was changed to do no threat with tbc
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Re: Healing threat.

by smilkovpetko » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:44 pm

alright i did some tests today , the heals doesn't split properly among mobs , in fact many times you face off both mobs gets same amount of threats eachother instead split .

"precast hotting" should do threats and it is working as intend :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006243112
The only way you should be pulling aggro from a pre-pull HoT is if the tank is face-pulling and not doing any sort of AoE threat move.


The issue here i see is "splitting" threats from healing is not working correct , (maybe on different type creatures work proper) but on same type seems some issue.

Another problem which is already confirmed and i already mention is the Crowd Control Threats (which yes) for now not a big deal for warriors , but extreme deal for paladins .

I noticed another issue when you "cast" heal (example)
target lack 1k hp , you healed him 2k (1k overheal). The threat goes more than 500 for some reason in server.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Shay » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:08 pm

Softarunt wrote:Pretty sure "pre-hotting" was changed to do no threat with tbc


No, I have only ever played a healing class in early vanilla (never in any later expansions) and I pre-hotted almost every pull, I remember it very well. It definitely is not working in the same manner as retail did.
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Re: Healing threat.

by Ziphr » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:07 am

smilkovpetko wrote:"precast hotting" should do threats and it is working as intend :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006243112
The only way you should be pulling aggro from a pre-pull HoT is if the tank is face-pulling and not doing any sort of AoE threat move.




You just quoted a thread from Cataclysm, Nov 2012, for a discussion about vanilla mechanics.

Im not even sure why you're here.
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