Should I care about racials?

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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Colezz » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:41 am

Aethelwulf wrote:Garafunkel, while there are a number of self-apparent reasons to reflexively dismiss your post and its respective (lack of) analytical merit, ranging from the seething tone, to your use of min/max as a pejorative in a mechanics discussion, to your condemnation of absolutist reasoning despite the fact that I didn't even engage in absolutism, I suppose I may as well for the reader's benefit contribute my piece. Truth be told, I don't know where this impassioned defense of mediocrity comes from, but nowhere good, that much is certain.

Setting aside the fallacious nature of the "argumentum ad populum" you are employing, afaict those are not even Warlock statistics but generic level 60 statistics.


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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Memegank » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:26 pm

Colezz wrote:Look everyone this guys intelligent


Looks like a thesaurus job to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0LqZMsfTQ
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Garfunkel » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:42 pm

No one is denying that it is possible to play a disadvantaged race/class combination.

Dude! You can't even remember what you wrote yourself? Or what others wrote?

Well let me quote the earlier posts here to which I reacted:

Armilus wrote:Priest (alliance)-> Night Elf is useless

Useless. Not just that fear ward is more useful than Starshards but apparently nelf priests can't heal.

Armilus wrote:Warrior (Alliance) -> Dwarf is useless for PvE

Useless. Not just that nelfs have bit more dodge but apparently dorfs don't have defensive stance or taunt.

Rhook wrote:Nightelf is not viable.

Not viable. Rhook seems to agree with you that nelf priests can't heal.

Should I also re-quote what you said about alliance warlocks? Yeah, let's.

Armilus wrote:That one racial is the #1 reason why you shouldn't play an Alliance Warlock

You didn't say that "UD racial makes life difficult for Alliance warlocks", you straight up claimed that nobody should play a lock on Alliance side.

Also, nice attempt at the popularity argument - somehow those hundreds of Alliance warlocks manage to play just fine, as is proven by the fact that they EXIST by the census Noxm posted. If you were right in that claim, then we wouldn't have many warlocks, if any at all.

Armilus wrote:I think Nostalrius is the only private server I have played on. I was referring to vanilla.

Then it's even more baffling that you said that. Maybe the guilds aiming for world & server firsts were keen enough on maximizing efficiency that they only accepted dorf priests and tauren tanks but it certainly was not a general sentiment or a common policy. My old guild had dorf, human and nelf priests, our main MT was a gnome warrior and the second MT was a human. Somehow we managed to have BWL on farm and were progressing in AQ40 when TBC came.

That's what I meant by my last paragraph of binary thinking, which you so amply demonstrate. Showing up at time, knowing the strategies, bringing necessary consumables and being able to play your class intelligently are far more valuable to a raiding guild than 5% health or a situational buff that is useful on Magmadar and Onyxia currently and will only be applicable at Nefarian when BWL comes out.
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Ravni » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:18 am

Any decent guild could have all of their members remove their (in game!) pants and clear vanilla content just fine. Some derriere connoisseurs simply prefer the aesthetics of raiding pantless and who are we to judge their sartorial choices?
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by lelexD » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:24 am

DrearyYew wrote:for melee, yes, it's damn near required in PvE

for casters, not so much, but they're still nice

play what you want to play


"required"

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Vanilla content is easy as shit, racials aren't going to make or break a character.
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by zmandude24 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:50 pm

Unless you are in a guild trying to get server firsts, race doesn't really matter for raiding for most classes. The exception is priests due to racial class spells. Racials are still nice to have if you know what you want to do endgame. For example, I chose tauren for my warrior because I want to tank raids.
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Armilus » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:27 pm

Garfunkel wrote:
No one is denying that it is possible to play a disadvantaged race/class combination.

Dude! You can't even remember what you wrote yourself? Or what others wrote?

Well let me quote the earlier posts here to which I reacted:

Armilus wrote:Priest (alliance)-> Night Elf is useless

Useless. Not just that fear ward is more useful than Starshards but apparently nelf priests can't heal.

Armilus wrote:Warrior (Alliance) -> Dwarf is useless for PvE

Useless. Not just that nelfs have bit more dodge but apparently dorfs don't have defensive stance or taunt.

Rhook wrote:Nightelf is not viable.

Not viable. Rhook seems to agree with you that nelf priests can't heal.

Should I also re-quote what you said about alliance warlocks? Yeah, let's.

Not Armilus wrote:That one racial is the #1 reason why you shouldn't play an Alliance Warlock

You didn't say that "UD racial makes life difficult for Alliance warlocks", you straight up claimed that nobody should play a lock on Alliance side.

Also, nice attempt at the popularity argument - somehow those hundreds of Alliance warlocks manage to play just fine, as is proven by the fact that they EXIST by the census Noxm posted. If you were right in that claim, then we wouldn't have many warlocks, if any at all.

Not Armilus wrote:I think Nostalrius is the only private server I have played on. I was referring to vanilla.

Then it's even more baffling that you said that. Maybe the guilds aiming for world & server firsts were keen enough on maximizing efficiency that they only accepted dorf priests and tauren tanks but it certainly was not a general sentiment or a common policy. My old guild had dorf, human and nelf priests, our main MT was a gnome warrior and the second MT was a human. Somehow we managed to have BWL on farm and were progressing in AQ40 when TBC came.

That's what I meant by my last paragraph of binary thinking, which you so amply demonstrate. Showing up at time, knowing the strategies, bringing necessary consumables and being able to play your class intelligently are far more valuable to a raiding guild than 5% health or a situational buff that is useful on Magmadar and Onyxia currently and will only be applicable at Nefarian when BWL comes out.


First of all, I did not say half the things that you quoted with my name.

Second, Yes, nightelf priest can't heal in raids because no decent guild invites them to raids. Dwarf warriors can't taunt or DPS in a raid because no decent guild invites them to raids.

I am assuming that if people are asking this question, they probably haven't created their character yet. Telling them that it does not matter at all is bullshit, you are lying to them. There ARE implications to your choice of race and you can't deny that. Do you really need me to list every guild that is not going to recruit a nightelf priest or dwarf warrior/rogue?

It doesn't matter if you agree with the discrimination or not, it's a fact that it exists and it can and will effect the experiences of a player.

Since you can do it, hey why don't I do it too:
Garfunkel wrote:Wow, thank you Armilus. I now realize that you are absolutely correct and I was totally being a doucher by mis-leading new players. Golly gee, you're just the best guy ever!


Thanks Garfunkel!
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Aethelwulf » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:23 pm

Garfunkel wrote:You didn't say that "UD racial makes life difficult for Alliance warlocks", you straight up claimed that nobody should play a lock on Alliance side.

It is a terrible choice for Warlocks if you ever want to PvP. Someone with both trinket and WotF up their sleeves has a way the fuck stronger matchup against Warlocks than someone with just the trinket. It's a massive PvP handicap.

Also, nice attempt at the popularity argument - somehow those hundreds of Alliance warlocks manage to play just fine, as is proven by the fact that they EXIST by the census Noxm posted. If you were right in that claim, then we wouldn't have many warlocks, if any at all.

You were the one who made the fallacious popularity argument. I just pointed out that even along those lines, Alliance Warlocks are tied for least popular class while Horde has around 50% more warlocks. Players will also tell you that it's better to roll a Mage than a Warlock on the Alliance side.

Then it's even more baffling that you said that. Maybe the guilds aiming for world & server firsts were keen enough on maximizing efficiency that they only accepted dorf priests and tauren tanks but it certainly was not a general sentiment or a common policy. My old guild had dorf, human and nelf priests, our main MT was a gnome warrior and the second MT was a human. Somehow we managed to have BWL on farm and were progressing in AQ40 when TBC came.

No one cares about BWL on farm. Progressing in AQ40 when TBC came out is also not an accomplishment. What you really mean is you were still farming BWL and wiping on Twin Emps and C'Thun while others dropped BWL and were clearing Naxx. And that's the sort of skill level your advice is targeted for: The guy who won't make his way into the upper tiers. When someone follows your advice and picks a bad race, the deck is already stacked against him. When he reaches 60 and finds out, he has to ask if he's willing to roll to 60 all over again if he wants to make it into that content. That option of trying for endgame already got screwed by a bad race pick. Stop giving bad advice.

That's what I meant by my last paragraph of binary thinking, which you so amply demonstrate. Showing up at time, knowing the strategies, bringing necessary consumables and being able to play your class intelligently are far more valuable to a raiding guild than 5% health or a situational buff that is useful on Magmadar and Onyxia currently and will only be applicable at Nefarian when BWL comes out.

You're trying to say skill trumps racials. It's a bad argument because being skilled and having the right racials still puts you ahead of the ones who are skilled without the racial (and odds are skilled players pick the better races, crazy, I know). Sure, having superior skill and itemization could make up for it, but that's why we say that those racial choices are handicapped - because you have to do more just to get somewhere around an equal footing. Depending on the content they are challenging, people will try to squeeze out every last boost so hard that racials become a solid deciding factor.
Last edited by Aethelwulf on Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Armilus » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:28 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:I don't know how to use /quote and I should not be allowed to post on these forums anymore. Someone please ban my in-game account, I exploit all the things all the time.


Don't be so hard on yourself man!

Aethelwulf wrote:I am even worse at using /quote than Garfunkel. I claim the crown of worst poster ever!


Can't argue with you there.



Ahem. STOP USING MY NAME ON OTHER PEOPLE'S QUOTES!
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Re: Should I care about racials?

by Ihealwpvp » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:26 am

kinda related.

gnome females are very good for pvp. for pvp, females are better. smaller model size =less pixels = less noticeable in the thick of things. smaller shoulder-pads etc.
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