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Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:42 am
by Undertanker
Aslan wrote:I know how to test it, if I could be arsed to do 10k swing samples I wouldnt be asking :).


So you don't believe me, so you want me to do the leg work.

Again, not my problem. You want to believe otherwise, prove yourself otherwise. Lazy ass.

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:54 am
by Aslan
Undertanker wrote:
Aslan wrote:I know how to test it, if I could be arsed to do 10k swing samples I wouldnt be asking :).


So you don't believe me, so you want me to do the leg work.

Again, not my problem. You want to believe otherwise, prove yourself otherwise. Lazy ass.


Heyhey, calm... There will always be more than 1 view on how things work unless an official statement happens. I asked if you have blizzlike sources apart from vanilla wiki to back up your claims about the attack table nothing more :). By blizzlike I mean, how it suposedly worked back then on the official servers... which is no guarantee that it works the same way here

Have a nice day

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:01 am
by smilkovpetko
Aslan wrote:
Undertanker wrote:
Aslan wrote:I know how to test it, if I could be arsed to do 10k swing samples I wouldnt be asking :).


So you don't believe me, so you want me to do the leg work.

Again, not my problem. You want to believe otherwise, prove yourself otherwise. Lazy ass.


Heyhey, calm... There will always be more than 1 view on how things work unless an official statement happens. I asked if you have blizzlike sources apart from vanilla wiki to back up your claims about the attack table nothing more :). By blizzlike I mean, how it suposedly worked back then on the official servers... which is no guarantee that it works the same way here

Have a nice day


http://leftoversraiding.org/index.php/t ... d-you.html

» #7027 Thursday July 27, 2006 at 13:54

You got what you ask for ;) enjoy

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:11 am
by Aslan
smilkovpetko wrote:
http://leftoversraiding.org/index.php/t ... d-you.html

» #7027 Thursday July 27, 2006 at 13:54

You got what you ask for ;) enjoy


Hahaha well thats the formula I support. Unlike others I am looking for evidence for the other side too ;)

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:24 am
by Soyoen
smilkovpetko wrote:
Aslan wrote:
Undertanker wrote:
So you don't believe me, so you want me to do the leg work.

Again, not my problem. You want to believe otherwise, prove yourself otherwise. Lazy ass.


Heyhey, calm... There will always be more than 1 view on how things work unless an official statement happens. I asked if you have blizzlike sources apart from vanilla wiki to back up your claims about the attack table nothing more :). By blizzlike I mean, how it suposedly worked back then on the official servers... which is no guarantee that it works the same way here

Have a nice day


http://leftoversraiding.org/index.php/t ... d-you.html

» #7027 Thursday July 27, 2006 at 13:54

You got what you ask for ;) enjoy


That source does not confirm the tbc or wotlk calculation of weapon skill effects on miss chance when attacking a higher level npc. Considering weapon skill has been changed repeatedly from patch 2.0 and beyond I'll be glad if an old source (pre 2.0) appears that confirms the intended behaivour described by both the undertanker and later iterations of f.e wowwiki :)

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:41 am
by Aslan
Judging from the date this is a pre2.0 source(?)
Guess in the end the community wont get around a proper testign with multiple big samples anyway, featuring different amounts of weapon skill to find the chosen formula for nostalrius.

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:29 am
by smilkovpetko
@Soyoen

TBC Date Release is at January 16, 2007

Wotlk Date Release is at November 13, 2008

The Sources Date Posted is at » Thursday July 27, 2006 at 13:54

Please next time look the date posted before you decide to question my sources.

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:56 am
by Stalk
smilkovpetko wrote:always 40% of attacks will be Glancing Blows

...against level 63 enemies only.

smilkovpetko wrote:(310 is cap) for 0% dmg reduce, (305 is human racial) for 15% dmg reduce , (300 is non weapon skill) for 25% dmg reduce per glancing blow.


Leftovers Raiding Community does not have very reliable information despite being linked for a lot of bug reports on this server. Also, as you have linked them, the damage reduction that they claim from a 300 skill glancing blow vs. a level 63 mob is 30% reduction (NOT 25% reduction).

The maximum weapon skill required to increase glancing blow damage to the full 100% of weapon damage was supposed to be 315 against a level 63 enemy, which leads to a simple linear formula of 2% reduction in damage per difference between weapon skill and target defense. Please check other sources.

http://www.fantasy-fan.org/index.php?na ... pic&t=2402

Edit: Many other sources also have shown that the damage reduction of a glancing blow from a level 60 player with 300 weapon skill against a level 63 enemy with assumed 315 defense is a reduction in normal attack damage of 35% on average. The myths that are born from the private server scene are astounding.

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:43 am
by Aslan
Stalk wrote:Edit: Many other sources also have shown that the damage reduction of a glancing blow from a level 60 player with 300 weapon skill against a level 63 enemy with assumed 315 defense is a reduction in normal attack damage of 35% on average. The myths that are born from the private server scene are astounding.


Well this is just the formula that was apparently confirmed to be used by the devs (at least back in beta). It isnt that linear.
Athan's formula: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/88387 ... 192504.png

However I wouldnt conclude that it is the one and only and 100% true solution to how glancing blows work either, who knows nowadays how they worked back in retail, the only important thing is that they work like that here. Without official statements on game mechanics you will always have different attitudes and approaches to things that lead to similar outcomes and dismissing some of them as myths might bite you in the foot :).

Pretty sure feenix used a different formula though.

Re: Ratio between weapon skill increase and hit % increase?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:28 am
by smilkovpetko
Stalk wrote:
smilkovpetko wrote:always 40% of attacks will be Glancing Blows

...against level 63 enemies only.

smilkovpetko wrote:(310 is cap) for 0% dmg reduce, (305 is human racial) for 15% dmg reduce , (300 is non weapon skill) for 25% dmg reduce per glancing blow.


Leftovers Raiding Community does not have very reliable information despite being linked for a lot of bug reports on this server. Also, as you have linked them, the damage reduction that they claim from a 300 skill glancing blow vs. a level 63 mob is 30% reduction (NOT 25% reduction).

The maximum weapon skill required to increase glancing blow damage to the full 100% of weapon damage was supposed to be 315 against a level 63 enemy, which leads to a simple linear formula of 2% reduction in damage per difference between weapon skill and target defense. Please check other sources.

http://www.fantasy-fan.org/index.php?na ... pic&t=2402

Edit: Many other sources also have shown that the damage reduction of a glancing blow from a level 60 player with 300 weapon skill against a level 63 enemy with assumed 315 defense is a reduction in normal attack damage of 35% on average. The myths that are born from the private server scene are astounding.


Did you ever check the link that i posted?

http://leftoversraiding.org/index.php/t ... d-you.html

sounds like you didn't.