What does Weapon Skill do in vanilla?

[Hatson]

Base resist chance for magic spell against target of same level is 5%, up to around 16% against bosses ( dont recall the right number, it is either 16 or 17% ).

I think it's 17%. That's the number I always remembered at least.
I'm not good at explaining the math, but I have numbers engraved into my head after all these years that I have believed in forever.
I don't know all the math behind it besides what the wiki formulas have to say about it.
And some of those wikis are just factually wrong it seems.

So I just go by the numbers that everyone else always said they were during the time I played.
Yes, I realize that is an absurd way of thought. But if you want to do the research on that, feel free to.
As it is, I'm pretty sure it's 17%. But anyone who knows better, please speak up.

[Kwak]

Pretty sure it's 16% because as a caster you can't reach 100% hit chance. Unlike melee hit there is 1% miss chance you can't reduce. At least in vanilla.

The base hit chance against a mob 3 lvl above you (like raid bosses) is 83%, so you need 16% to get to 99% hit chance.
Get to 100-101-102% is useless since you'll have as much resist with your spell as if you had 99%

[Hatson]

The 1% miss: I forgot about it. You may indeed be right.

[Shaggoth]

Just wanting to know if those item are valuable in raid for the hunter as it seems there are no glancing blow for them :
http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=22207
http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=18296

Let's say I'm a troll (+5 bow spec), my spec is http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1122 ... 0511303150 and my gear gives me 150 agi (172 (+15% spec)), +4 with bows, 5% crit and 3% hit.

If I calculate my rolls on a raid boss (63) :

0) Skill
S(in %) = (TargetDefense - AttackerWepSkill)/25 => S = (315-309)/25 = 0.24

1) Miss
L = (TargetLvl - AtkrLvl) => 63-60 = 3
M = B + 6*S + L + T => M = 5 + 6*0.24 + 3 - 6 (spec+gear) = 3.44

2) Crit
Y = 53 for Hunters, 29 for Rogues, and 20 for all other classes.
X = 0 for Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters
C = X + Agi/Y - S + T => C = 0 + 172/53 - 0.24 + 13 (spec (8) + gear (5)) = 3.24 - 0.24 + 13 = 16%

3) Hit
Every hit that aren't miss or crit so 80.56%

So it means it's useless for hunter, just a mere 9*0.04 crit and hit ? Or does the 305 WS lower the hit cap to 6% like Ardeith said and then my Troll's passive is enough ?

[Ardeith]

So it means it's useless for hunter, just a mere 9*0.04 crit and hit ? Or does the 305 WS lower the hit cap to 6% like Ardeith said and then my Troll's passive is enough ?

Indeed for hunter 305 weaponskill is enought ( then you only need 6% hit from gear / talent ).
It is only worth for melee to go above 305 because of glancing blow.
As you said, there is no such thing as glancing for hunter.

So the 2 items you linked are really good if you dont have 305 in weaponskill, as it lower you hit cap by 2%.
You can see the +2 in weaponskill as 1% hit if you want to compare to other items ( 1.2% hit is the real number if you want to do some theory craft under the hit cap ).

[Floux]

http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=22207
http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=18296

Since when ? That's so great !

[Netherfrost]

It's still never above 5/24 if its scripted correctly. As I said, it is not blizzlike.

This did nothing but confuse me. And now you say the 8,6%, that I thought was the right one.

Everything Ardeith said is what I always believed to be the case. And it's pretty much what everyone else has said as well through all these years.

I think I found what confuses you. Yellow and white hit cap :p

Snip.

Well.. there are no +paws.

"Paladin/shaman can melee, but a lot of their abilities are actually spell which dont use additional weapon skill". - What is "using" weapon skill? No ability does that.

"Losing strikes btw means wasting rage/energy, which isnt good"
- How do you waste energy on glancings?

[Hatson]

Nether, I was never distinguishing between either white or yellow damage. I know what they are, and I know they share different properties and tables.
From the very getgo, I was simply talking about how much you would need to be "hit capped" with everything.

Not just 2H White.
Not just 2H Yellow.
But the entire hit cap itself required to never, ever, get a "miss" with a 2hander.
Hence it is called the "hit cap". At least, that is what everyone refers to when they speak of the "hit cap".
It is not split into white, and yellows. Neither of them are the point, the point is "hit cap", which is the number needed to never "miss", whether it be using a 2H or DW.
If I wanted to talk about the hit cap for whites only, then I would just say "hit cap for whites".

Yes, weapon skill is a big factor in the melee side of it, and can completely change how much hit you would need to reach the current "hit cap" compatibility with your current weapon skill - But like I said I was never factoring those in, but simply talking about the "hit cap" all by itself, with no added weapon skill, and no splitting up of attack properties; Not just whites, not just yellows. But the actual "hit cap" itself.

I can now go to sleep more easily knowing that this is all over. Phew.

[Keftenk]

http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=22207
http://db.nostalrius.org/?item=18296

Since when ? That's so great !

Whoa whoa whoa :O!!
It's too bad its in French...and no filters

[Youfie]

Hi,

You guys already answered the OP quite nicely about the impact of +WS pre-2.0.

Regarding Glancing Blows, I just have a precision for the non-beta players (or even the beta ones that didn't pay attention when this was fixed) about how it was scripted on Nostalrius.

The mechanic is properly scripted (unless it was modified since I stopped playing on the server mid-2013). The only thing is the 310 cap was not chosen. Instead, a cap of 315 to fully nulllify the damage reduction from glancing blows was used.

I did my best during NR beta to report as many things as I could, and the Glancing Blows issue was one of them. I compiled as much information as I could regarding the glancing blows damage reduction formula to help the staff.

Long story short, the formula said to be "Athan's" formula regarding the GB damage reduction was deemed the more appropriate by the NR staff to be applied to the server, and it implied a +WS cap of 315.

Not only it seemed more 'logical' to have a 315 cap, it turned out the 310 cap was claimed everywhere to be the cap against a raid boss to have 0% reduction on GB, but actual tests without statistical bias to corroborate this number were nowhere to be found.

I'm not gonna detail Athan's formula, I don't remember it exactly and I'm sure it can be found somewhere online, but it came down to having still a 5% malus on glancing blows when attacking a raid boss with 310 WS, resulting in an average 2% reduction on white DPS.

Apparently, most people claimed 310 to be the cap because the 5% malus on glancing blows was quite hard to "feel" or record properly because of the damage ranges of the melee weapons. Only actual tests performed on thousands of glancing blows could allow that. And unlike other formulas claiming 310 to be the cap, Athan's was actually backed up by such tests.

Basically, the empirical tests regarding Athan's formula and its 315 cap were deemed more accurate, statistically unbiased and consistent by the staff.

Sorry for the long post, I just thought that you guys might find this worth knowing.

It's quite impossible to know exactly how Blizzard handled the GB reduction, at least not with a 100% accuracy, so the devs just chose the formula with the most coherent "background" and tests to their knowledge, i.e. taking into account that a 5% damage reduction was very hard to record without proper tests, making 99% of people agree about the 310 cap, whereas actual tests with a significant amount of GB were carried out to conclude that the cap was actually 315.

Of course, as always, if you think the staff was mistaken to implement this formula, if you find sources more trustworthy than the ones I (and they) found, you can just write a report and the staff will be thankful from your knowledgeable input and happy to change the formula to the exact 100% Blizz-like one I guess.

Have a nice day