Which lore should be used ?

[Keldan]

With the perspective of writing fictions and/or role playing on an older version of World of Warcraft, an interesting question appears : which version of the lore should be used ? What should be canon ?

We have several options.

1. Actual (6.0) WoW lore, which is still completed by Blizzard at the moment.

2. Burning Crusade (2.0) lore : when 1.12 was out, we already knew the new stuff about Draenei and Blood elves. So the Outland lore would be canon, but nothing after it.

3. Original WoW lore (1.0) : fits with the books you can read in game.
Several changes here :
- All orcs were born green. No exception.
- Illidan is presumed dead. The Blood Elves are in Outland and no one knows really what happened after that (TFT). Quel'thalas is ruined by the Scourge.
- No one knows what happened to Gilneas and Kul Tiras. As far as we know, it is not destroyed and the two kingdoms are fine. (except there is a new leader in Kul Tiras as Admiral Proudmoore is killed by Rexxar in TFT.
- No draenei & Draenor retcons : the draenei are native from the mushroom covered world of Draenor (which is also know as the Red World), they is only one version of them (the ugly one). They built crude cities within the world's towering cliffs and peaks. They have no links with the Eredar. The Eredar (along with the Nathrezims) corrupted Sargeras, not the opposite.
- The Well of Eternity was a huge lake (almost a sea), not the tiny pool you can see in Cataclysm.
- The Maelstrom is huge, not the tiny thing from Cataclysm.
- Azeroth is both the name of a human kingdom (where Stormwind is) and the name of the planet.
- Dragons usually kills you at sight. Not many exceptions. They are not your f*cking friends, they are big lizards who don't care about your little mortal life.
- ...

4. Create our own lore (which is a difficult operation ideally involving a wiki and administration to keep the lore consistent).

What do you think ?

[Wraith§Reaver]

I think that at least on the question of the lore we can pretty safely bet on the most current versions.
In fact, even Blizzard in the past made mistakes/oversights quite hilarious as this one that everyone remembers xD, which later they fixed, so I would stick with the Actual (6.0).
It would make no sense to return to an "incomplete lore", from my point of view.

[TheLockKing]

There's a problem with the in-game books in that many of them are wrong. But that's not a bad thing. They're mostly written from a single perspective, many of the "key" ones being easily accessible only to one side. This is actually a lot better than if everything was correct info as it adds that flavour of misunderstandings to the races.

Also, I'm almost certain the "orcs are all born green" is one of these misunderstandings by the Alliance. Reason I say almost is because I can't remember if WC1/2 talked about the transformation when they drank the blood of Mannoroth. The Blackrock clan might be born dark skinned as well.. need to check up on that again.

As for Draenei, I can't remember anything about them but I DO remember you actually go to Draenor in WC2: Beyond the Dark Portal and turn it into Outland near the end of the campaign.. It's explicitly stated that that's where the orcs are from.

Dragons.. is where it gets really sketchy. The Dragon Aspects were definitely in the Warcraft games (you even get to enslave Alextrasza AND fight with Deathwing) and I think it was stated most dragonflight are peaceful. The ones you face in WoW are either Black Dragonflight, Blue Dragonflight (both stated to be lead by outright dicks Deathwing (hinted to be alive constantly in Vanilla and TBC) and Malygos), the Red Dragonflight that survived the Second War (this is important. Red Dragons aren't inherently asshats, but orc enslavement and torture twisted many. Those that were used in the Second War are the only ones who are hostile.), and the Nightmare Dragons which are peaceful Green Dragonflight that are corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare.

..oh there's Bronze, but they don't attack unless attacked first.

The way I would do it is simple:

• Everything up to the Dark Portal Re-Opening happened. If Nostalrius decides to the the Pre-BC event, I'd assume it'd be a rare occurance and be written off as "The Burning Legion TRIES to make a new one, but can't get a stable portal without someone as powerful as Medivh on our side."
• Quel'Thalas isn't ruined, but everyone just assumes it is (entire Scourge army attacking, no chance they'd survive right?) and no one wants to risk going through the Plaguelands to find out.
• The Light and Elune are still believed to be actual mystic forces. We know NOW that there's a possibility they could be Naaru, but back before BC Naaru weren't even a thing. This goes for any "unknown" occurrence that was later explained in an expansion or book which took place after Vanilla.

[Letokteren]

I can't imagine how could we go with option number one.

In 1.12 we are still fighting against the Lich King's army, we can not have acces neither to Outland nor to Pandaria (or Draneor), and the world looks pretty untouched by Deathwing. It is simply impossible.

Yet it could be interesting to bring elements from the current lore to the old one.

For example: There could be a sailor who claims that he has seen pandarens. Or orcs who still remember the dranei. Etc.

These scenarios would be unimaginable back in 2005. But not now. Now we know everything about these places yet we can not visit them, and everything that will happen there is the future from 1.12 perspective.

What do you think about this option?

[Civean]

double post. didn't realize first post had to be authorized my b.

[Civean]

We have several options.

1. Actual (6.0) WoW lore, which is still completed by Blizzard at the moment.

4. Create our own lore (which is a difficult operation ideally involving a wiki and administration to keep the lore consistent).

What do you think ?

Both of these options are def. the wrong way to go about it. Creating lore's pretty lame. Almost every time someone tries to it ends up being terrible. In regards to 6.0 lore, how would you go about it? There aren't any indicators of lore post 1.12 happening yet in-game. Places like Thousand Needles especially would be really awkward to try to explain away.

My suggestion would be to assume that you're locked in the vanilla era. No lore beyond 1.12, and when the server eventually downs Naxxrammas the lore essentially stops and remains stuck in a post-Naxx, pre-TBC event lull.

[Shadow]

Just stick to the lore that is available at the current timeline and you'll be fine. As for orcs being green, the Blackrock Clan from the mountain could prove you otherwise. Though I don't think you'll live much longer after you see their skin up close.

Re: Which lore should be used ?

Post by TheLockKing » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:45 pm

''There's a problem with the in-game books in that many of them are wrong. But that's not a bad thing. They're mostly written from a single perspective, many of the "key" ones being easily accessible only to one side. This is actually a lot better than if everything was correct info as it adds that flavor of misunderstandings to the races.'' - As it should be. Unless you have access to the orcish city or the archives kept by the undead of Lordaeron you can't really see the conflict from their point of view.

[Keldan]

Just stick to the lore that is available at the current timeline and you'll be fine. As for orcs being green, the Blackrock Clan from the mountain could prove you otherwise. Though I don't think you'll live much longer after you see their skin up close.

At the time we thought they gained a darkish skin because they lived too much time beneath Blackrock Spire. This made sense at the time for numerous reasons :
- Before 1.11.1, all orcs were green, including Blackrock orcs. Remaining green orcs could be seen in Redridge Mountains. This was fixed with TBC I think, where they tried to be a little bit more coherent as they introduced brand new brown orcs. Note that Saurfang is still green, however.
Why they changed the color : previously, the Blackrock clan was mainly in Alliance areas. Now, the Horde would fight them in BWL. They wanted a visual difference between friendly orcs (green) and bad orcs (black).
- In previous games all orcs were green. Especially BR ones as they were the main protagonists in WC1&2.
- Before the novel Rise of the Horde released shortly before Burning Crusade, the Blackrock, Dragonmaw (and others I think) were said to be formed AFTER the orcs crossed into Azeroth and joined the Blackrock Spire. So thinking they were a "subrace" would have been nonsense.

I guess the current lore but at the 1.12 point in time is the easiest choice.

[TheLockKing]

Just stick to the lore that is available at the current timeline and you'll be fine. As for orcs being green, the Blackrock Clan from the mountain could prove you otherwise. Though I don't think you'll live much longer after you see their skin up close.

At the time we thought they gained a darkish skin because they lived too much time beneath Blackrock Spire. This made sense at the time for numerous reasons :
- Before 1.11.1, all orcs were green, including Blackrock orcs. Remaining green orcs could be seen in Redridge Mountains. This was fixed with TBC I think, where they tried to be a little bit more coherent as they introduced brand new brown orcs. Note that Saurfang is still green, however.
Why they changed the color : previously, the Blackrock clan was mainly in Alliance areas. Now, the Horde would fight them in BWL. They wanted a visual difference between friendly orcs (green) and bad orcs (black).
- In previous games all orcs were green. Especially BR ones as they were the main protagonists in WC1&2.
- Before the novel Rise of the Horde released shortly before Burning Crusade, the Blackrock, Dragonmaw (and others I think) were said to be formed AFTER the orcs crossed into Azeroth and joined the Blackrock Spire. So thinking they were a "subrace" would have been nonsense.

I guess the current lore but at the 1.12 point in time is the easiest choice.

Actually... >.> they weren't.
Grom Hellscream was a red orc (WC3 model significantly darker color from Thrall and darkens a bit more when the drinks the Chaos Well) after he'd drank the Blood of Mannoroth.And from the wiki:

"A Blood Curse, also known as the Blood Pact, is when an orc or group of orcs consume the demonic blood of a powerful pit lord to gain supernatural strength, speed, resilience and stamina. The effects as well as side effects are immediate, and the symptoms that manifest from blood consumption are green skin, glowing red eyes and a considerable increase in size. Further exposure and physical change cause the skin to turn red, a greater increase in body mass, green/purple eyes, extra tusks and bone growth that breaks the skin."

Green orcs exist because of the Blood Curse and basically make all children of the drinkers (and their children, and so on) green as well. One small exception is... The Frostwolf Clan. Yep. Thrall is green, yet his father and mother didn't drink the Blood, nor did he. The Frostwolf Clan was unfortunately situated VERY close to Hellfire Citadel and its overabundant Fel Energy during the building of the Dark Portal and prior to the Invasion of Azeroth. So they were eventually tainted with green without being affected by the Curse.

Saurfang the Older (Varok) is green because he drank the Blood. Saurfang the Younger (Varok's son, Dranosh) is brown because he was too young at the time and is chillin in Nagrand.. or Mag'har.. one of the two. ALSO

Ner'zhul from WC2 and WoW. Brown, and it makes sense.. he was the one who warned Durotan about the Blood.

Also. The Blackrock clan was around before they entered Azeroth, as Blackhand (The Destroyer, not Rend Blackhand) was Gul'dan's puppet leader of the Horde during and before the First War (Detailed in WC1). They took Blackrock Mountain later on as tribute to both themselves and their home.

Orcs from different clans do have different features, but it's not a "subrace" but more along the lines of ethnicities. Blackrock orcs are usually gray, Dragonmaw are a light purpleish-gray, and the other clans were originally various shades of brown.

Orcs know this. Non-orcs almost certainly don't since its not a part of their history.

[Shadow]

Great post LockKing; as a future orc slayer it is useful to know such details

Jokes aside, your information is 100% correct.