Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by Youfie » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:15 am

Hi everyone,

If you're the kind of Rogue who likes to know exactly how much DPS you will gain from a given piece of gear in a raid environment, you're probably using a Spreadsheet.

There are a few of them out there, and them aim at giving you the exact break-point at which X% crit becomes better than Y% Hit or +Z AP and shit, taking into account all your buffs, talents and gear.

I've been playing a bit with some of them and most of the time they've been of great help to me.

Sadly, there were always some parameters that I couldn't understand exactly "How did that guy model this proc?", "What exactly did he assume regarding this?", "Wait, how can he know that?, "Hum, this thing seems a bit off, what are exactly the damage formulas for me to check?" and so on.

I kinda like messing around with Excel, so I decided to try to create my own Spreadsheet.
Since I play Combat Daggers, I figured the cycle was simple enough to allow me to quickly have something pretty accurate (I figured out it wasn't that easy :lol:, but I carried on).

The spreadsheet was only for my own use at first. I used it a bit to check the differences with other spreadsheets for the same gear / buffs setups etc., and I then shared it with my guildmates and a few friends.

It's during a discussion about Rogue theorycraft with a fellow Rogue with whom I hadn't shared my work that I thought maybe posting it here would be nice, so I finished some changes I wanted done and here we are.

Long story short, a few things about this spreadsheet :

• It's supposed to be much more user-friendly and easy to use than some other ones I've used (at least in my opinion) ;

• Allows you to easily modify the target's armor factor to see how it impacts your DPS (rather than using a standardized armor value for instance) ;

• Allows you to easily modify the duration of a fight to see how it impacts your DPS ;

• Allows you to see in a clear way how everything is calculated exactly in a separate tab. Even though the formulas themselves are sometimes a bit harsh, you can always see how a proc, a set bonus, your Backstab or poisons are impacted by Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry ;

• For procs about which we're not 100% sure, the proc rate can be manually modified, in case something is currently bugged on Nostalrius, or doesn't work the same way it did on Feenix etc.

It's not done yet, but I will eventually try to model trinket-swapping during a fight (Vanish ftw), to truly estimate how on-use trinkets perform when used properly.

The spreadsheet is 15/31/5 Combat Daggers only - the exact talents are in the file.
For now, it is Alliance only, as I've been too lazy to add base stats for Horde races, a model of the Windfury proc and Totem buffs (since I play Alliance). I'll add them in the future.

Keep in mind I mean absolutely no harm towards other spreadsheets modeling Combat Daggers DPS output. They're great, I just found some of them a bit blurry and ended up doing my own, and I'm sharing it with you guys. The DPS output of a given setup is kinda close to the other files I've used most of the time anyway.

I'd be happy if my spreadsheet could help anyone. If you find any bug, inconsistency or just want more information about how I modeled something, or if you have any suggestion, you're welcome!

EDIT - October 28th 2015 :

New version: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet - 1.2

EDIT : new link, with unarchived version of the file, since it seems to cause troubles to some of you. Don't try to use the Mediafire built-in excel viewer, download the file itself ;).

New Features :

• Base stats for Orcs, Trolls & Undead Rogues added ;

• You can now choose Windfury as a temporary weapon enchantment, and Grace of Air & Strength of Earth totems as raid buffs ;

Crusader enchantment added (it causes an issue with the Next-Stat section though, see "Known Issues") ;

Thistle Tea added: a very small glitch remains with it, along with some other effects (see "Known Issues"). It is modeled as a cooldown and the spreadsheet assumes you drink one as often as possible : the shorter the fight, the higher its DPS (just like BF & AR) : a 1-second fight gives unrealistic results (as if you instantly spent the 100 Energy) ; it is assumed that you always get full benefit out of it (i.e. 100 Energy), and all the Energy is assumed to be used on Backstab ;

• You can know equip a Dagger or a Sword in off-hand: this should be useful to Rogues who can get their hands on a Sword vastly superior to the off-hand Daggers they have access to, and wonder if they could use it in off-hand, despite losing 5% crit on their off-hand auto-attacks, especially Human Dagger Rogues. As a result, MH & OH now have a separate auto-attack table in the Details tab, and applying an Elemental Sharpening Stone on your weapon will now be displayed in these tables (it wasn’t the case until now, and it was intended) ;

AQ20 Handbook of Backstab IX added (considered a buff so that you can choose to use it or not) ;

• You can now choose between talented and untalented versions of Blessing of Might, Battle Shout & Gift of the Wild, and use ranks available from AQ20 or not - this also goes for the newly added Grace of Air & Strength of Earth buffs as well as Windfury Totem ;

Poisons and magical procs (e.g. DMC:M) now take into account your chance to score a critical strike with spells (base chance = 0,00%), and are thus affected by buffs affecting it ;

Slip'kik's Savvy +3% to crit with spells buff added.

Bug Fixes :

• Fixed a (huge) error from me regarding Blade Flurry and Adrenaline Rush: they now have a 15-second duration, as they always should have, rather than a 20-second one ;

• Fixed a glitch that caused the 8/8 Bloodfang proc to use DMC:M PPM for the OH PPM instead of the PPM set for the proc, and a similar bug causing the Shadowcraft / Darkmantle proc to use BF 8/8 PPM for MH and DMC:M PPM for OH (since all of these were set at 1 PPM by default, it didn't change anything at all unless you tried custom PPMs for these effects) ;

The Songflower Serenade (new name of the improper "Felwood Buff") now also increases Strength and Agility by 15, as it always should have ;

• Fixed a bug that caused Elemental Sharpening Stones to bypass the crit cap mechanism and allowed one to gain some DPS on their auto-attacks even after being crit capped (however they still grant you some DPS when applied to your MH after reaching the crit cap, as intended, because of Backstab) ;

• Fixed an oversight that prevented Backstab from being crit capped (not in the same way auto-attacks are though, of course) and allowed one to gain DPS from having more than 100% chance to crit with it (yes, it is possible with the proper gear and buffs) ;

• Fixed an oversight that caused Backstab critical strike chance to ignore the slight loss of crit due to the target being level 63 : this is now fixed and it should now always be equal to the one displayed in the attack-table for your MH + 30%, unless you’re crit-capped for your MH auto-attacks ;

• Fixed an oversight regarding the 3/8 Bloodfang bonus : it was calculated properly in the Details tab but wasn't added to the "Normal" DPS ;

• When having more than 315 Weapon Skill, the Dodge chance reduction wasn’t calculated properly : it now is ;

• Fixed a typo with Blackmist Bracers stats (wrong amount of Strength) ;

• Arathi Basin reputation set 3-piece 1% critical strike bonus was missing, and has been added.

Gear changes :

Mongoose Boots added to the gear list ;

Band of Unnatural Forces added to the gear list ;

Stormrage's Talisman of Seething added to the gear list ;

Kiss of the Spider added to the gear list ; it wasn’t really a priority to model, but since it's pretty easy to do so because it just basically turns your Blade Flurry into a +44% Haste effect (if you assume both effects are always used at the same time, which they should since they have the exact same cooldown and duration and scale with each other due to haste effects being multiplicative), I’ve done it right away.
Please note that the DPS gain listed in the KotS section (Details tab) isn’t the actual Average damage gain from KotS, it’s the Blade Flurry damage gain from it (then, depending on the length of the fight, BF DPS is averaged etc., so the total Average DPS section is still accurate) ;

• Some PvP items from WSG / AB / AV have been renamed to be more consistent with each other and easily identifiable for both factions.

Miscellaneous :

• Dire Maul 200 AP buff renamed to Fengus' Ferocity (instead of "DM Buff") ;

• Felwood +15 All Stats & +5% crit buff renamed to Songflower Serenade (instead of "Felwood Buff") ;

• "Hakkar's Head" buff is now known as Hakkar's Heart, as it always should have ;

• You can now choose between Juju Power & Elixir of the Giants, rather than being forced to use Juju Power or nothing ;

• You can now choose between Elixir of the Mongoose & Elixir of Greater Agility, rather than being forced to use Elixir of the Mongoose or nothing ;

• The formula for the Crit in the Auto-attack table was slightly modified because it seemed I was previously deducting crit to account for the Weapon Skill / Defense Difference twice ;

Juju Flurry added to the « raid buffs » section. It isn’t supported yet though. I only added it because I was lacking one buff for everything to look symetrical and shit. I don’t know if I’ll script it in the near future, since it’s a bit of a pain in the ass, with its duration being different from Blade Flurry etc. (maybe when I’ll get down to the trinkets).


Changelog since the original release to my guildmates :

Changelog - 1.1 :

• Added "Next Stat" & "Stats Equivalence" sections ;

• Fixed two major issues with Hand of Justice DPS model ;

• Yellow abilities, such as Backstab, the newly added Bloodfang 8/8 Proc or other similar procs added in the future, will now use correct Miss rate if the Rogue has less than the yellow Miss cap ;

• Darkmantle set added ;

• Might of Cenarius & Cloak of Shrouded Mists added to the gear list ;

• Jom Gabbar added (just in the gear list, the trinket isn't actually supported yet) ;

• Shadowcraft & Darkmantle respective 4/6-piece Attack Power bonus added ;

• Stormshroud 2/4 & 3/4-piece procs added ;

• Shadowcraft & Darkmantle respective 6/4-piece proc added. Procrate set at 1 PPM (can be modified) ;

• Darkmoon Card: Maelstrom trinket proc added. Proc rate set at 1 PPM (can be modified) ;

• AQ20 3-piece Slice and Dice energy cost reduction added ;

• Bloodfang 3-piece bonus added ;

• Bloodfang 8-piece proc added. Procrate set at 1 PPM (can be modified) ;

• Bonescythe 4-piece proc added ;

• Fixed a typo on the Cape of the Black Baron's stats.


Last edited by Youfie on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Youfie's Combat Dagger Spreadsheet

by snawfu » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:58 am

Good stuff! Horde alternative ples. ;__;
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Re: Youfie's Combat Dagger Spreadsheet

by Nyarko » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:02 am

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Re: Youfie's Combat Dagger Spreadsheet

by Setup » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:28 pm

Wouldn't 1 PPM maelstrom give you an inaccurate picture of the value of that card because it ignores the fact 16% of the procs will get resisted by bosses?
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Re: Youfie's Combat Dagger Spreadsheet

by Youfie » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:29 am

Setup wrote:Wouldn't 1 PPM maelstrom give you an inaccurate picture of the value of that card because it ignores the fact 16% of the procs will get resisted by bosses?

The 17% Miss rate against a level 63 boss, +6% from innate resistance, is taken into account, just by making the average damage 250 * 0,83 * 0,94.
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Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by pomfittes » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:28 pm

Nice work.

This thread should be sticky'ed
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Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by 50shadesofayyy » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:56 pm

Everything you listed that's different with your spreadsheet are the main gripes I have with Oto's. Patiently awaiting a Horde version. Thanks Youfie.

Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by 50shadesofayyy » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:44 am


Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by Youfie » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:17 pm

50shadesofayyy wrote:Bumpp

I didn't have much time to work on the spreadsheet recently. I've been struggling with Crusader & Windfury modeling :(.

Can someone give me the base Agility / Strength / AP of a naked Troll / Orc / Undead at level 60? And regarding Horde Buffs, what I have to add are GoA & SoE totems (in addition to WF I mean), right? Can someone give e the Agility & Strength values of these ones after talents & shit ?

Would save me a bit of time :).
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Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by Slicy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:43 am

Awesome stuff. Thank you very much for sharing this.

I'm glad something is eventually proving my belief than 15 agi is better than 5 weap dmg on MH despite what most guides and popular opinion claim on this subject. :lol:
Got tired of all the "wtf 15 agi on your MH, why u do this ?" random whispers.

AP gains from Agi scaling on alliance with most buffs is even making DFB > Perds acc to the spreadsheet at some point.

I'm curious on how you will fit Crusader into this. The dps differences can be quite big depending on when it procs during the fight/how many seconds you really benefit from it. This randomness seem quite hard to model.
Maybe by reducing its effective duration when a proc occurs by X % or Y secs ?

If I'm not mistaken and checked correctly, Mongoose Boots are missing in Overview and in Gear List.

Just two questions :
- Is the "chance on hit" effects from enchantments/poisons/trinkets/talents/etc. considering the fact they can proc from non hits/crits like dodges and misses since it is the case on Nost ?
- Not making relevant differences at all but "Dire Maul" in Buffs & Weapons means +200 AP or +200 AP and +3% spellcrit ? Same question about Songflower for its spellcrit part.
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