Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

Re: Youfie's Combat Daggers Spreadsheet

by Youfie » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:07 pm

Noisy wrote:- Apparantly +10 str food gives me more dps then +20 str food ! (guessing thats a bug, or that the two show eachothers value)

Hey, indeed there was a bug with the values assigned to those foods. I fixed it for the next release of my Spreadsheet. I haven't worked on any major feature yet, but I think I might just upload a v2.1 to fix this bug and some minor other things, cause it's always annoying for you guys and if someone has a precise question about a specific setup, I can't get the exact same numbers & all so it would prevent me from performing an efficient troubleshooting. I guess I'll upload it in the next few days :).

Noisy wrote:- It seems Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas is better for me then BB in my current settup (posted below) is that because im to close to the crit cap?

If you're not crit-capped, the Seal should be inferior to BHB, so if you're "close", it should be inferior. If you're past the crit cap however, it should be superior, unless you're beyond the cap by less than 2%, then it may vary ofc.

Noisy wrote:- Id heard rumors about +15 agi on MH beeing better then +5 wep dmg, but in my mind the big shiny numbers kinda blocked out the "small" ap/crit gain from +15 agi. Is there some fights where one beats the other, or is +15 agi just flat out better?

Yeah, according to my calculations the +15 Agi is better than the +5 Dmg, unless maybe with very crappy gear, because it scales better, not only with Hakkar / BoK, but with other stats in itself.

Noisy wrote:- According to your spreadsheet the crit cap is roughly 46.4%, a sum im basically 0.5% from reaching while using my normal raid buffs, when/if I hit the crit cap, will it be beneficial for me to dump crit for another stat, and if so what stat?

When you reach the crit-cap, any additional crit will become useless unless you gain some Hit first.
If you're *exactly* to the crit-cap, any additional +Crit is worth nothing for your white damage, however any additional +Hit isn't worth more than usual.

If you're *beyond* the crit-cap, every 1% Hit you gain gives you 1% Hit And 1% Crit on your auto-attacks (provided you're beyond the crit cap by at least 1%, and so on), which is sick, that's why you should focus on Hit if you're over your crit-cap.

Furtheremore, note that the crit-cap depends on your Miss Rate, and thus on the formula used to determine the base Miss Chance.

I'm not 100% sure that the formula I used for Hit is the one used by Nostalrius. I'm pretty sure I noticed a normal hit (not a crit, not a glance) some while ago, while I was supposed to be beyond my crit cap by a few points. And the formula I used (27% base Miss rate) wouldn't change much things compared to the other one (24,6%), as mine assumes the first 5 Skill Points to grand you 2% hit, which basically reduces the gap between the two formula to a very small margin once you have 305+ Skill.

I can't state that with a 100% certainty cause I haven't really run thorough tests & all about Miss chance, maybe I was just tired, didn't see a Mongoose had faded or whatever.

Anyway, I might run such tests if I have time sometime, and in the meantime if someone have some knowledge about that, and how it works on Nostalrius, you're very welcome to share :).

Noisy wrote:Alot of questions, I know, Im sorry ! Any help you would be willing to offer would be great tho, Im the new classleader of my guild, and feel my knowledge lacking in theese more indepth discussions ! :?

Glad you like my spreadsheet ; I hope I could help you with your questions, feel free to tell me if I didn't :).

Noisy wrote:
I kinda wanna try Seal Fate aswell, I read some ooold post about seal fate eclipsing and surpassing combat daggers at some point (when you get enough crit, i THINK). Seal Fate seems much more fun then combat !

If snd is running out in the time it would take to rebuild 3+ CP im guessing SnD. If not, evi. Regarding the possibly wasted CP im unsure if using another BS possibly wasting 1 CP to get a 5CP evi is better/worse then using the 4CP evi and starting fresh.


The fact that Seal Fate 30/16/5 would be a lot funnier than 15/31/5 in a raid environment is obvious.
Regarding the fact that it could get better than 15/31/5 at some points, I don't know. I never did some serious maths about that, but I have to admit I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if it was the case.

I mean, switching to 15/31/5 to 30/15/5 causes you to loose :

You lose Adrenaline Rush, Blade Flurry, +5 Daggers, 5% Crit and only get 1/5 Dual Weild Specialization. Or you lose it as well and only lose 4% crit from being 1/5 Dagger Specialization. And you may also lose Murder in the Assassination tree, depending on what's the more profitable equation between the Imp. Poisons, Ruthlessness & Murder.

All of this talent are worth a *lot* of DPS, and scale extremely well with gear, not to mention with the duration of the fight too for AR & BF (the shortest, the better).

On the other hand, what a 30/15/5 spec grants you compared to a 15/31/5 is not much.

Assuming a 75% crit rate on Backstab, you get 1,75 CP per 60 (a little more due to Dodges actually) energy, i.e. around 0,58 CP per second. You need 5 CP every 30s to have a 100% uptime on SnD, i.e. around 0,17 CP per second. Leaving us with around 0,41 CP per second, i.e. 12s for 5 CP.

Which is, roughly, 24s i.e. 2 Evisc , so 2,5 evisc in our 30s cycle in addition to SnD. Might be a bit more with Ruthlessness, but I didn't account the potential lost Cps due to a crit when having already 4 Cps, or the damage loss if you decide to Evisc with 4 CP etc., so let's just assume you get 2,5 more Eviscerates with 5 CP in your cycle.

Rank 9 Eviscerate does about 958 damage + 15% AP @ 5 CP. Quickly looking at my gear (2127 AP), that's about 1277 uncrit damage, i.e. 1852 average damage (given a 45% crit rate). That's about 5324 damage after factoring in Imp Eviscerate for the 2,5 Evisc, for our 30 cycle, i.e. 5324 / 30 = 177 DPS.

And you can add some IP damage, i.e. around 10-15 DPS, depending on weapon speeds etc.

Well, that almost 200 DPS ! I was doing the napkin maths on the go, and actually it's quite a lot :3. It all comes down to whether the loss of everything else is more or less than that. Let's take big margins of error since my maths above are all very rough estimations. Oh I just noticed I didn't took into account Cold Blood. Whatever, you get the idea.

I fear on short fights, AR / BF are just too good, especially when used alongside trinkets, to be taken down by SF. On long sustained fights, however, where CDs have the least possible influence well, maybe.

Too lazy to do any more speculations right now, but I'd like to see more serious number-crunching about SF spec, it might be worth it under some circumstances! My maths about might be off though, please be gentle!
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