Input needed! (yet another PvP spec thread)

[zaptorque]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster:

I'm about to hit 60 on my rogue and have been doing quite a bit of research as far as what my respec at 60 should look like. My endgame goals are primarily PvP(BG and open world) while still maintaining viability to run some 60 dungeons to get better gear. I really have no intention of raiding at this point.

I leveled with both daggers and swords and while both seem viable, daggers just seems more fun. I went full combat to level and while it will be hard to give up endurance, imp sprint and adrenaline rush, I'm anxious for a new spec and new way to play the class.

It seems that the PvP meta for rogues is to have cold blood and preparation/hemo (it seems hemo will also help early on for PvE since I will be under geared for a while). With that being said here are the two specs I'm looking at (please, all criticism is welcome):

21/8/22 - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheboxkZGcZVMjc0hoo
Seems to be the cookie cutter type vanilla PvP spec. Since the spec is mostly based off getting ambush and BS it seems like a solid spec for daggers. I have read though that hemo is not worth using if you're gonna spec daggers, how much truth is there to this? One change to this spec could be to switch hemo out for imp sap and full camo.

21/3/27 - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fGe0oxkZhZVzecchRo

This spec intrigues me a lot and looks like a ton of fun to play for PvP purposes. I added remorseless attacks to make up for the lack of imp bs. My two concerns for this spec: backstab crits wont proc as often (less of a problem in BGs cos of remorseless attacks) and dungeon viability. Obviously DPS wont compare to a combat rogue, but if played correctly - will it be a viable spec for dungeons?

So there it is, I welcome any and all suggestions / input!

[Neidrah]

I don't see the point of the second spec you linked. I don't think anything is worth losing imp BS as dagger pvp spec. Also, you don't need to take hemo. And Remorseless Attack is pretty useless for pvp. Even in BG, it's really rare you'll be able to use it.

If you're trying to use dagger pvp with cold blood, I'd go with this: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheboxkZGcZVMIccbo.

However, you'll quickly notice that in most bg's, the enemy team will be at least 30% frost mages, if not more. It's pretty crazy. Also you don't get to build up a 5 CP evis that often as dagger, so cold blood is not as useful as it would be for hemo... So and answer to that is http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0oxZGcM0bZVMIccbo. When fighting frost mages, this spec is even better than hemo, actually. Since you don't even go for stuns, just ambush, vanish nova, ambush, sprint nova, backstab, etc. They don't have time to refresh their shields. It's awesome. It does make you weaker against classes like warrior, but honestly, dagger pvp is already shit against warriors, so just avoid those guys.


Honestly though, hemo is superior overall imo. You get to build up CP faster and it's really all that matters. Yes dagger has a bigger burst IF you crit with BS or Ambush, but with entry level gear, it just doesn't happen that often. You also get to improve your stealth as hemo, which is awesome against locks with Paranoia and you get a better opener with dirty deeds, which again means better CP building. Also the Dal'Rends are easily obtainable and pretty good for blues.
This is the base of a hemo spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fbebRxzZhZxMjochRo. You have 2 floating points that you can put in imp KS, Heightened Sense or Deadliness. As a human, I put it in imp KS since Heightened Sense is not worth as much (you have Perception) and Deadliness gets better with better gear.

[Ohhgee]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0cGRo

standard, most versatile PvP spec. Best spec for BGs, world PvP and 1vX, and any duel besides against Frost Mage. As guy above said, Daggers better vs Mages

[GetYouBarbara]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0cGRo

standard, most versatile PvP spec. Best spec for BGs, world PvP and 1vX, and any duel besides against Frost Mage. As guy above said, Daggers better vs Mages

hmm why not imp BS and imp ambush?

[Bluefear]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0cGRo

standard, most versatile PvP spec. Best spec for BGs, world PvP and 1vX, and any duel besides against Frost Mage. As guy above said, Daggers better vs Mages

hmm why not imp BS and imp ambush?

This spec does not use daggers

[Ohhgee]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0cGRo

standard, most versatile PvP spec. Best spec for BGs, world PvP and 1vX, and any duel besides against Frost Mage. As guy above said, Daggers better vs Mages

hmm why not imp BS and imp ambush?

you should never play Hemo with a dagger MH because what you're looking for on your MH is low speed and high top end dmg

so... those talents would only be useful in 1v1s against frost mages if you're using a weapon swap macro to open with Ambush. therefore the points are much better spent elsewhere where they improve your overall effectiveness in all situations.

also, CS -> Gouge opener is just as good (or better) as Ambush opener against Mages especially with the slight Nost delay that makes gouging their blink much easier

[GetYouBarbara]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0cGRo

standard, most versatile PvP spec. Best spec for BGs, world PvP and 1vX, and any duel besides against Frost Mage. As guy above said, Daggers better vs Mages

hmm why not imp BS and imp ambush?

you should never play Hemo with a dagger MH because what you're looking for on your MH is low speed and high top end dmg

so... those talents would only be useful in 1v1s against frost mages if you're using a weapon swap macro to open with Ambush. therefore the points are much better spent elsewhere where they improve your overall effectiveness in all situations.

also, CS -> Gouge opener is just as good (or better) as Ambush opener against Mages especially with the slight Nost delay that makes gouging their blink much easier

Thanx for the reply.