Good rogue PVP build?

[Slicy]

It's still better than than other talents from that tree before you grab CB. You can't play without it since you would do less damage overall.

Forget about daggers pvp. It's more frustrating than anything.You can only play it from 23:00 to 4:00 st assuming you have a good latency (and I do).
It was playable months ago. It's not anymore since august/september.

And even then hemo would perform better since you'd have a way easier time pooling energy for CCs. It's good and fun in 1 or 2 vs x or y, but past that it's not competitive.

[Fading]

It's still better than than other talents from that tree before you grab CB. You can't play without it since you would do less damage overall.

Forget about daggers pvp. It's more frustrating than anything.You can only play it from 23:00 to 4:00 st assuming you have a good latency (and I do).
It was playable months ago. It's not anymore since august/september.

And even then hemo would perform better since you'd have a way easier time pooling energy for CCs. It's good and fun in 1 or 2 vs x or y, but past that it's not competitive.

Yea, I was definitely considering it might be hard to play Backstab because of delays. It can be annoying enough trying to land them while leveling, much less against players who intentionally try to make it difficult.

As for Lethality, you honestly wouldn't be giving up much damage and you would have a better chance to get those immediate Crip procs.

[Slicy]

You are losing 15% dmg on around 25-30% (your crit chance) of your hemos, that's a lot of dmg. The tradeoff for more % proc on cripp isn't worth it, at all. You'll still get the shitty bad luck on procs. Even with 5/5. Lethality is a permanent boost on your hemo crits. Way better results.

But yeah, gl having fun and efficiency in pvp as daggers with the 5 secs delay if you ever decide to waste 50g for it. I guess it's fine if you mainly play at the "proper" hours.

[Fading]

You are losing 15% dmg on around 25-30% (your crit chance) of your hemos, that's a lot of dmg. The tradeoff for more % proc on cripp isn't worth it, at all. You'll still get the shitty bad luck on procs. Even with 5/5. Lethality is a permanent boost on your hemo crits. Way better results.

But yeah, gl having fun and efficiency in pvp as daggers with the 5 secs delay if you ever decide to waste 50g for it. I guess it's fine if you mainly play at the "proper" hours.

It's only 12% damage, on only Hemo crits, vs 4% increased poison application. IMHO it's just more important to land Crip, especially in team environments. I haven't hit 60 yet and my vanilla rogue experience is very limited, so take it as you will.

[Slicy]

Well I'm telling you as a fairly experienced vanilla player,

It's 15% more dmg on your hemo crits, not 12% :

- Without Lethality, if you hit for 100, you will crit for 100 base damage + 100 bonus damage = 200.
- Lethality is adding 30% to the critical strike damage bonus, not to the base damage. +100 bonus damage from critting becomes +130 bonus damage.
- With Lethality, if you hit for 100, you will crit for 100 base damage + 130 bonus damage = 230

> 230 / 200 = 1.15. Your crits will deal 15% more damage thanks to 5/5 Lethality.
Same reasoning for the warrior talent Impale, except the modifier on bonus damage from critting is 20%, which results in a 10% dmg increase on your crits.

Playing a dps oriented class without these key damage increase talents is killing the purpose of the class. You are not just providing utility, your main purpose is to nuke down stuff as well

Killing a target cause you critted (and you do decent dmg cause you got Lethatlity) VS Not killing the target but you got cripp on it.
Your damage output is gonna be very linear in hemo and most of your burst (apart from evi crits) will come from white crits and hemo crits. Not boosting the bonus damage multiplier isn't an option in any hemo build. The skill itself is weak enough (but got nice sound effect), might as well buff it up if you can.

[Fading]

Well I'm telling you as a fairly experienced vanilla player,

It's 15% more dmg on your hemo crits, not 12% :

- Without Lethality, if you hit for 100, you will crit for 100 base damage + 100 bonus damage = 200.
- Lethality is adding 30% to the critical strike damage bonus, not to the base damage. +100 bonus damage from critting becomes +130 bonus damage.
- With Lethality, if you hit for 100, you will crit for 100 base damage + 130 bonus damage = 230

> 230 / 200 = 1.15. Your crits will deal 15% more damage thanks to 5/5 Lethality.
Same reasoning for the warrior talent Impale, except the modifier on bonus damage from critting is 20%, which results in a 10% dmg increase on your crits.

Playing a dps oriented class without these key damage increase talents is killing the purpose of the class. You are not just providing utility, your main purpose is to nuke down stuff as well

Killing a target cause you critted (and you do decent dmg cause you got Lethatlity) VS Not killing the target but you got cripp on it.
Your damage output is gonna be very linear in hemo and most of your burst (apart from evi crits) will come from white crits and hemo crits. Not boosting the bonus damage multiplier isn't an option in any hemo build. The skill itself is weak enough (but got nice sound effect), might as well buff it up if you can.

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I never said you should take 0 points in Lethality.

This is the spec you listed:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0otdbZhZxMe0chRo

My argument was that after the 3/5 Lethality you can advance to the next tier and the points in Imp Poisons are more valuable than 2 more points in Lethality:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0oupbZhZxMe0chRo

Comparitively:
2 points in Improved Poisons vs 2 points in Lethality

4% flat increased poison proc vs
(100 base + 112 crit = 212) 6% increased damage on ONLY Hemo crits
Use a DPS addon to figure out how much of your actual damage Hemo crits account for, I'm willing to bet in a practical situation it's extremely low.
Impale is inherently better than Lethality, as it applies to ANY crit damage in ANY stance for a Warrior..

For something like Seal Fate daggers, Lethality is much more effective as you have a much higher crit chance with Backstab and the extra CP is dependent on your CP generator critting.

[Slicy]

Going 3/5 Lethality instead of 5/5 is really bad. I've explained why. Your main job is to put pressure with a consistent damage output. Gimping your crit damage for 4% more chance to proc cripp isn't a good option in vanilla pvp. But feel free to not take my opinion into account and try out by yourself.

The 5 points in Lethality aren't "floating" points like imp KS, imp EA, the points in Vile/Improved Poisons and such. They are core points in any decent hemo build.

[Fading]

How does Murder compare damage wise?
3% bonus damage on only Hemo crits vs 1% bonus on everything per point.