Rogue Guide by Oto

Rogue Guide by Oto

by Oto » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:57 pm

Vanilla Rogue Guide by Oto


Keep in mind that some items and stats are shown in 1.12 values, current status on Nostalrius Begins is 1.5 .

When grouped with others, the Rogue is considered to be the DPS Machine. In other words, you are there to kill stuff. Occasionally you sap mobs or scout around in stealth mo de, but for the most part, you are there to deal a world of hurt to your enemies. And as everyone knows, a Dead Rogue = 0 DPS, so it is your responsibility to make sure that your Rogue is equipped with not only the best in gear, but also the best in potions and other items that will keep you alive while increasing your DPS. After you've reached level 60 and have acquired an epic mount and a decent collection of armor and weapons, any extra gold that starts building up should be used to increase the combat effectiveness of your Rogue. ©

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Agi - Agility
AP - Attack Power
BF - Blade Flurry
BiS - Best in Slot
CC - Crowd Control
CD - Cooldown
CP - Combo Point
DoT - Damage over Time
DP - Deadly Poison
DPS - Damage per Second
IP - Instant Poison
LoS - Line of Sight
PVE - Player versus Environment
PVP - Player versus Player
SnD - Slice and Dice
Stam - Stamina
Str - Strength


Talent Builds
PVE Rotation
Debuff Slots and why are they important
Main Attributes (Stats)
Effects of Weapon Skill
Calculating your Hit table
Crit Strike & You
BiS Gear
Resistance Gear
UI & Addons
Macros & how to


Human [S80 A130]
Perception stealth detect, nice for PVP
Sword Specialization / Mace Specialization skill increased by 5
Diplomacy 10% more reputation

Gnome [S75 A133]
Escape Artist nice for PVP and some PVE situations

Dwarf [S82 A126]
Stoneform nice for PVP and sometimes in AQ / Naxx

Nightelf [S77 A135]
Shadowmeld +1 Stealthlevel, kinda useless, except for PVP
Quickness 1% dodge

Orc [S83 A127]
Blood Fury 2min CD, Increases base melee attack power by 25% for 15 sec.
Hardiness a resisted stun won't damage you, really nice for PVP and PVE

Troll [S81 A132]
Berserking totally situational (grants more attack speed, when hurt badly)
Beast Slaying - 5% damage against Beasts, not that many beasts bosses around

Undead [S79 A128]
Will of the Forsaken nice for PVP and some PVE situations

If your goal is endgame raiding the choices are quite simple:

Human is the master race when it comes to pure dps if you decide to play alliance.
Orc is the master race when it comes to pure dps if you decide to play horde.

*Added base stats at lvl 60 [S = Strength A= Agility]

Talent Builds

Leveling Spec for Starters and Pro's

Combat Sword 19-32-0 or

Combat Sword 19-32-0

Combat Sword 20-31-0 with Maladath

Combat Sword 19-32-0 Naxx Progress Special

Combat Dagger 15-31-5

The following Specs become more powerful when you reach a higher gear level (~AQ40 Gear) or you just get all possible Worldbuffs and reach the Critcap.

Seal Fate Dagger 30-16-5

Seal Fate Sword 30-21-0 Naxx Progress Special

Seal Fate Sword 30-21-0

Alliance Sidenote: Imp. Poisons is higher DPS than Imp. Eviscerate, but in longer fights you going to risk to lose all poison stacks, especially in Naxx. This is getting fixed someday. Lets hope so.
Horde Sidenote: Imp Eviscerate is better than Imp Poisons by ~2 DPS, depends on points spent. If you have Windfury available.

PVE Rotation

First of all: you are playing with energy, you have 100 energy as default and you gain 20 energy every 2 seconds. That being said, you can start now with the basics.
Let’s assume that you are standing in front of a boss.

Step 1: Check your buffs

Check your buff bar for all group buffs, consumables and poison stacks and rebuff if needed.
Fact to know: When you are grouped and stealthed, you are invisible for your groupmates too, keep that in mind, when you want to receive buffs -> go out of stealth.

Step 2: Opener

The first attack of a rogue, when he engages a fight, is called opener and rewards the first CPs.

Ambush [60 Energy | 1 CP | Stealth | Dagger needed]
Deals very high weapon damage.

Garrote [60 Energy | 1CP | Stealth]
DoT lasts 18sec, scales with AP, but consumes a debuff slot.

Cheap Shot [60 Energy | 2CP | Stealth]
4 sec stun
Very handy when you have to stunlock mobs.
Useless in most boss fights.

Sinister Strike [40 Energy | 1CP]
Deals weapon damage.

Backstab [60 Energy | 1 CP | Dagger needed]
Deals high weapon damage.

Recommendations for

Combat Swords - Sinister Strike
Best opener for Sword Spec in my opinion, less dmg than garrote (SS can crit), but less energy cost. Easier to keep up your cycle afterwards and to get faster to the target without the stealth penalty.

Combat Dagger - Ambush / Backstab
Average damage of Ambush is higher than Backstab, even without the 30% extra crit rate.
But Backstab don’t requires stealth and you could get faster into the fight. Decide situational!

Seal Fate Dagger - Backstab
Best opener, 30% higher crit rate than Ambush, you want to crit with your CP-builders.

Step 3: building CPs and using Finishing Moves

CP can be build via Sinister Strike or Backstab (Hemo/Ghostly Strike for PVP-Spec).
You can receive a maximum of 5 CP.

CP consuming abilities are called Finishing Move or Finisher.

Slice and Dice- DPS
Maintain it 100% of the time, its your main damage deliverer. And it does not matter how much CPs you have to use for it, so use it with your first CP and further into the fight try to use it at 5CP all the time, to profit from Relentless Strikes.

Eviscerate- DPS
use it at 5CP all the time, to profit from Relentless Strikes.
Decreased damage by armor.
This is your default finisher.

Rupture- DPS
Ignores armor - useful for bosses with high amounts of armor.
Be Aware! it consumes a debuff slot, ask your raid leader.
It depends on your gear and spec, if its more useful than Eviscerate. Check Spreadsheet to get exact data and keep in mind: rupture can not crit.

Kidney Shot- non DPS
Finishing move that stuns the target. Lasts longer per combo point.
Doesnt work on most bosses, but sometimes very useful on adds and trash to prevent them from hurting you and your group mates.

Expose Armor- non DPS
overwrites the Sunder Armor debuff of warriors, kinda useless in PVE situations
Don’t bother using this, its a waste of precious CP.

Step 4: The DPS Cycle

The most DPS is done by 3 things: spamming main ability which grants CP and using these CP to maintain SnD and use the rest of CP for dmg finishers like eviscerate.

Step 5: Movement in Fights

Movement is by far the best skill check of a player, to maintain the rotation isn’t really hard, but to move and keep an eye on the boss mechanics while maintaining the rotation is the tricky part.
To be honest, there's not much to say here. Turn your character with the mouse, turning via A / D = DEAD or less DPS.

Step 6: How to use Cooldowns

First thing to know is, that you want to do as much DPS as possible.
Your DPS is affected by debuffs on the boss and your own buffs.
That kept in mind, you should always wait with using offensive cooldowns until the most debuffs/buffs are up, for example: 5 stacks of sunder armor, faerie fire, etc.
Maybe adding a crusader proc to it, now its the best time to use your AR, BF, racials or whatever your race / spec offers to you.

Combining cooldowns with each other maximizes your DPS on an enormous amount.

Example: BF + Blood Fury both 2 min CD, best used together

On the other hand, you'll face a few boss fights where you can cleave adds with BF.
Its best to not care about debuffs / procs at this time and use every possible cooldown for the cleave. Adds die faster, your DPS is UBER HIGH = WINNING.

Another example are boss fights, where you’ll face enrage phases or phases where you should do the most DPS in (f.e. Onyxia Flight Phase), use the cooldowns there!

Killing a boss and saving your teammates lifes has always higher priority, than your personal DPS!



Blade Flurry CD: 2 min / Duration: 15 sec
Increases attack speed + hitting a second target nearby

Adrenaline Rush CD: 5 min / Duration: 15 sec
100% more energy regen - instead of 20 per 2 sec, you gain 40 every 2 sec
Using it less than a second before a new energy tick, will result in 8x 40 energy ticks, using it too early will only get you 7.

Cold Blood CD: 3 min
100% Crit on next yellow attack - best used for 5 CP Eviscerate

Sprint CD: 5 min
70% increased run speed

Thistle Tea CD: 5 min shared CD with Major Healthstone, Whipper Root Tuber and some others
Grants 100 energy on use - best used at 0 energy


Vanish CD: 5 min
Wipes threat & removes immobilizing effects - use to prevent gaining aggro or to get out of slows and stuff

Blind CD: 5 min
10 sec CC - use it to rescue teammates from lose mobs, until the tank picks it up again

Evasion CD: 5 min
50% increased dodge chance - used to tank a short period of time or for dodging cleaves

Debuff Slots and why are they important

In 1.12.1 we face a limitation of 16 debuffs that can occur on a mob / boss.

Here is a list of debuffs, which grant extra DPS for us rogues:

Sunder Armor - reduced armor by 2250
Curse of Recklessness - reduced armor by 640
Faerie Fire - reduced armor by 505
Gift of Arthas - Increases physical damage taken by 8

I personally start arguing about missing debuffs, when other classes slack. (not recommended)

So in 40 man raids, its most likely that the 16 slots are filled with useful debuffs, to push the overall raid DPS or for defensive matters.
In 20 man or lesser raids, you can check on your group setup. If you can find space on the debuff list, than its fine to use deadly poison or rupture/garrote, but only if its actually pushes your DPS.


Instant Poison - this is your DEFAULT poison, use it on both weapons (Horde only on OH)
Deadly Poison - does more DPS than IP on long fights, but consumes a debuff slot, not recommended in 20/40 man raids
Crippling Poison - useful for a few boss fights, where you have to slow adds and kite them
Mind-numbing Poison - increasing spell casting time, useless for most boss fights
Wound Poison - reduced Healing taken, useless for most boss fights

Main Attributes (Stats)

Attributes are the basic building blocks for a character's combat ability. The five primary attributes are strength, agility, stamina, intellect, and spirit. These five attributes along with armor appear on the character sheet under Base Stats. These are often referred to as simply stats.

A number of secondary attributes affect specific areas of combat more directly, and are often influenced in some way by a primary attribute. Secondary attributes include critical strike rate, damage absorption, attack power, spell power, and many others.

All characters inherently have some amount of each attribute that increases with level depending mainly on class. For example, a mage will have more base intellect than a rogue, who will have more base agility. Increasing these attributes is mainly done with equipment, as well as temporary effects such as buffs, elixirs, scrolls, auras, and many other means.

Nearly all combat mechanics rely in some way on one or more character attributes. Increasing the appropriate attribute will increase damage done, reduce damage taken, increase healing done, affect a character's mana or health, or other benefits. Understanding how these attributes work is important for effective combat.

Increases attack power with both melee and ranged weapons by 1
Increases your crit chance by 1% per 29 Agility
Increases Armor and Dodge

Increases attack power with melee weapons by 1.

Increases health points by 10 per point

Increases the rate at which weapon skills improve

Increases health & mana regeneration rates = useless stat

Decreases the amount of damage taken from physical attacks
A stat you don’t have to care about

A list of Values for the Combat Specs
expect that crit & agi value is higher in Seal Fate Specs. Especially for BiS gear. If you want to calculate with Spirit of Zandalar just add factor *0.15 to Agi and Str. These numbers are averages and you can use them to calculate your Items, without using my spreadsheet.

Pre Raid BiS Gear buffed *[Dagger]


1 Crit = 23 AP [20]
1 Hit = 18 AP [16]
1 Agi = 1.9 AP [1.8]
1 Str = 1.1 AP


1 Crit = 24 AP [20]
1 Hit = 20 AP [17]
1 Agi = 1.8 AP [1.7]
1 Str = 1.0 AP

BiS Gear*[Dagger]


1 Crit = 29 AP [25]
1 Hit = 21 AP [18]
1 Agi = 2.2 AP [2]
1 Str = 1.10 AP


1 Crit = 28 AP [24]
1 Hit = 24 AP [20]
1 Agi = 2 AP [1.8]
1 Str = 1.0 AP

Effects of Weapon Skill

For each point that your weapon skill exceeds your opponent's defense, you gain the following:

Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.

When you hit a monster or a boss the game will go thru a small procedure to decide what your swing will be... will it miss? will it crit? will it be a dodge or perhaps a glancing blow? The easiest way to explain this, is by imagining yourself a prioritized list like this:

1) Miss
2) Dodge
3) Parry
4) Glancing blow
5) Block
6) Critical hit
7) Normal hit

What this means is that if places 1-6 total up to 100%, Normal hit will be knocked off the table and never occur.

Important to know is that a boss has a base dodge chance of 5.6% and can only parry/block attacks that are made from their front, but since a rogue should never be attacking a dungeon/raid monster/boss from the front, we will see their parry/block chance as 0%.
Your base chance to miss is 24,6% when dual wielding against a boss.
Another good thing to know is that when you as a player gain +hit you do not exactly increase your hit chance, instead you reduce the chance to miss.
The total amount in the hit table can not be higher than 100%.
Your chance to hit is what is left over to reach 100% after adding all the other things. Lets say your chance to get a miss+dodge+glancing blow+crit = 80%, then you have 20% to get a normal hit.

Hit refers to physical damage that occurs as a result of an attack made with melee or ranged weapons. The base chance to miss with maximum weapon skill (300) against an opponent of equal level is 5% for two handed and 24% for dual wield.

In short: 310 Weaponskill = huge dps boost

Calculating your Hit Table

The standard white hit table for a naked lvl 60 rogue looks like this:

Miss: 24.6%
Dodge: 5.6%
Parry: 0%
Glancing blow: 40%
Block: 0%
Critical hit: ~10%
Normal hit: 19.8%

This means that if you make 100 attacks against a boss, you will deal 0% damage 30 times, 200% damage 10 times, 100% damage 20 times and 70% damage 40 times.

Now lets say you find a lot of gear that gives crit but no hit and end up having 35% crit, your white hit table would then look like this:

Miss: 24.6%
Dodge: 5.6%
Parry: 0%
Glancing blow: 40%
Block: 0%
Critical hit: 29.8%
Normal hit: 0%

Note that you have 35% crit but only 29.8% of your strikes will be critical strikes, this is because you are over the thing people like to call crit cap. Its quite a nice name, but unlike the hit cap it is not a fixed value. The crit cap is the same as the % of swings that will not be glancing/dodged/missed.

Lets keep going with this example and say that you find gear that does not reduce your chance to crit and gives you +6% hit, your white hit table would look like this:

Miss: 18.6%
Dodge: 5.6%
Parry: 0%
Glancing blow: 40%
Block: 0%
Critical hit: 35%
Normal hit: 0.8%

As explained earlier, the +6% hit will not increase the chance to get a normal hit... but rather reduce the chance to get a miss.

There are two big difference between a white hit table and a yellow hit table and that is that yellow hits can not be glancing blows and the standard chance to miss is only 8%.

The hit cap is the amount of +hit you need in order to make sure none of your attacks will miss. There are two different hit caps

The first hit cap is the most important one, it is commonly known as yellow hit cap. This hit cap is the amount of +hit needed to never miss with special abilities which damage is shown with yellow text on your screen. You will need +8% hit to always hit with your special abilities against a raid boss. This hit cap is a lot more important than the next one because missing with your abilities such as Sinister Strike, Backstab or Eviscerate is a huge waste of energy and global cooldowns, and also this one is a lot easier to achieve.

The second hit cap is the white damage hit cap. This is the amount of +hit need to never miss a normal melee swing. You will need +24.6% hit to always hit a raid boss, as you might notice 24.6 is a lot higher than 8 and this is the reason why its not as important as the first one, since you would have to give up a lot of other stats in order to reach 24.6% hit, and there is nowhere near enough +hit on gear early on at lvl 60 to reach this cap.

Poisons are affected only by Spell Hit and special talents, so dont bother about them.

In short: Minimum Hit = 8% (5% from talents + 3% from gear) and maximum Hit = 24.6%

Critical strike and how to calculate crit cap and why is it important?

Critical strike (often abbreviated as crit) refers to 100% bonus physical damage (twice your normal damage) that occurs as a result of an attack made with melee or ranged weapons.
The chance to critical strike can be viewed by opening your spellbook and moving your mouse over the attack ability shown there.
It is increased by agility where you increase your critical strike chance by 1% for every 29 points.

Crit cap for your auto attacks (white damage) is a variable that changes based on the following formula:

100% - 24.6% miss - 5.6% dodge - 40% glance + your hit%

Crit cap for your yellow attacks :

100% - 8% miss - 5.6% dodge + your hit%

note that yellow attacks cannot glance and that you can not push off dodge with hit rating

Now to elaborate why is crit cap important, well its quite simple actually, there is no point of having more crit than crit cap because we already established that the total amount in the hit table can not be higher than 100%.

In short: after reaching 8% Hit, Crit > Hit, until you reach the Crit cap.

Best in Slot (BiS) Gear

Here is a list of items that you can easily obtain in 5/10 mans without big efforts.
This gear setup is called Pre Raid BiS Gear and is the best way to get into your first raids.

T0.5 4-Set Bonus is a good way to push your DPS, when you can’t reach higher lvl gear like T1/T2 etc. Feel free to check out the spreadsheet, to calculate the values of your current/future gear.

Pre Raid

Combat Sword Spec [Combat Dagger Spec]

Mask of the Unforgiven
Lesser Arcanum of Voracity
Mark of Fordring
Truestrike Shoulders
Cape of the Black Baron
Cloak - Lesser Agility
Cadaverous Armor > Nightbrace Tunic > Shadowcraft Tunic
Chest - Greater Stats / Chest - Stats
Bracers of the Eclipse > Deepfury Bracers
Bracer - Superior Strength / Bracer - Greater Strength
Devilsaur Gauntlets
Gloves - Greater Agility
Cloudrunner Girdle [Mugger’s Belt]
Devilsaur Leggings
Lesser Arcanum of Voracity
Swiftwalker Boots / Mongoose Boots
Boots - Minor Speed / Boots - Greater Agility
Don Julio’s Band > Tarnished Elven Ring > Painweaver Band > Blackstone Ring
Hand of Justice > Blackhand's Breadth > Rune of the Guard Captain > Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas

Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge [The Lobotomizer > Electrified Dagger [A] - Glacial Blade [H]*
Weapon - Crusader [Weapon - Crusader / Weapon - Superior Striking]
Dal'Rend's Tribal Guardian > Mirah's Song [Felstriker / Distracting Dagger]**
Weapon - Crusader
Precisely Calibrated Boomstick < Satyr's Bow (This will change in a future patch)

*The Lobotomizer uses a debuff slot and i don't recommend it for 40 man raids. Its totally fine in 5-20man.
** Distracting Dagger is just an example, its best when you don’t have Mugger’s Belt, otherwise every other fast Dagger is nice to have with a high dps rate.

Current BiS List 1.6

I did the calculations without the World buffs and fully Raid buffed of course. For the alliance side, as human.
Feel free to create your own Horde equivalent Version of it, by using your brain or my Spreadsheet.

Combat Sword Spec [Combat Dagger Spec]

Bloodfang Hood
Lesser Arcanum of Voracity
Prestor's Talisman of Connivery
Bloodfang Spaulders [Nightslayer Shoulder Pads]
Puissant Cape
Cloak - Lesser Agility
Bloodfang Chestpiece
Chest - Greater Stats
Bloodfang Bracers
Bracer - Superior Strength
Bloodfang Gloves [Aged Core Leather Gloves]
Gloves - Greater Agility
Bloodfang Belt
Bloodfang Pants
Lesser Arcanum of Voracity
Bloodfang Boots [Boots of the Shadow Flame]
Boots - Minor Speed
Band of Accuria + Master Dragonslayer's Ring
Hand of Justice + Drake Fang Talisman

Chromatically Tempered Sword [Perdition's Blade]
Weapon - Crusader [Weapon - Crusader / Weapon - Superior Striking]
Brutality Blade [Core Hound Tooth]
Weapon - Agility
Striker's Mark

BiS Overall

Sword Spec [Seal Fate Dagger Spec]

Bonescythe Helmet
Death's Embrace
Prestor's Talisman of Connivery
Bonescythe Pauldrons
Might of the Scourge
Shroud of Dominion
Cloak - Lesser Agility
Bonescythe Breastplate
Chest - Greater Stats
Bonescythe Bracers
Bracer - Superior Strength
Bonescythe Gauntlets [Aged Core Leather Gloves]
Gloves - Superior Agility
Belt of Never-ending Agony [Bonescythe Waistguard]
Bonescythe Legplates
Death's Embrace
Bonescythe Sabatons
Boots - Minor Speed
Bonescythe Ring / Band of Unnatural Forces
Slayer's Crest > Kiss of the Spider > Drake Fang Talisman

Gressil, Dawn of Ruin [Kingsfall]
Weapon - Crusader
Iblis, Blade of the Fallen Seraph / The Hungering Cold for non human [Harbinger of Doom]
Weapon - Agility
Nerubian Slavemaker

Biznicks 247x128 Accurascope not sure if working on Nostalrius, it shouldnt!
Seal of the Dawn or Mark of the Champion are the best trinkets against undead.

Resistance Gear

in Progress

Rogue Spreadsheet

Old spreadsheet from Elitist Jerks rogue forum (currently under construction for Nostalrius Server, comin soon!)
Feel free to download and report bugs or wrong item attributes and stuff.

Vanilla Rogue Spreadsheet


Engineering / Mining - best profession for maximizing your DPS
Goblin Sapper Charge / Dense Dynamite / Thorium Grenade (not working on mobs that are stun immune) / Field Repair Bot 74A / Gnomish Battle Chicken (unproved functionality)

Herbalism / Alchemy - to farm / craft your own consumables

Cooking - Recipe: Thistle Tea

Picklocking - a REAL ROGUE trains his pick lock skills! you can make some extra gold here.
Tip: Train it while leveling your character, your reachable max skill increases by 5 for every level.


Here is a list of useful consumables you should bring to a raid.

Mandatory Stuff

Elixir of the Mongoose or Elixir of Greater Agility
Winterfall Firewater
Juju Power
Grilled Squid / Blessed Sunfruit
Ground Scorpok Assay & R.O.I.D.S.

Instant Poison VI
Heavy Runecloth Bandage
Flash Powder used for vanish
Blinding Powder used for blind
Thistle Tea

Crystal Charge / Ez-Thro Dynamite II / Stratholme Holy Water for AOE

Additional / Survivability

Flask of the Titans
Sheen of Zanza
Spirit of Zanza
Swiftness of Zanza
Elixir of Fortitude
Elixir of Demonslaying for Doomlord Kazzak
Elixir of Poison Resistance nice for AQ / Naxx
Gift of Arthas +10 Shadow res
Major Troll's Blood Potion
Rumsey Rum Black Label
Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops
Free Action Potion for all bosses, who stun & do movement impairing effects
Jungle Remedy nice to have for 5 mans
Major Healing Potion
Restorative Potion

Greater Fire Protection Potion MC / BWL / Naxx
Greater Nature Protection Potion ZG / AQ / Naxx
Greater Frost Protection Potion Sapphiron / Kel’Thuzad
Greater Arcane Protection Potion Shazzrah / Gothik
Greater Shadow Protection Potion BWL / AQ / Naxx
Holy Protection Potion hmmm yeah, it exists


Oil of Immolation enhanced by spellpower and expendable to 100% uptime
Flask of Supreme Power to enhance Oil of Immolation and/or Lifesteal
Elixir of Greater Firepower to enhance Oil of Immolation
Greater Arcane Elixir to enhance Oil of Immolation

Juju Might currently higher droprate on Nostalrius, than retail, go get it!
Juju Flurry not really worth it


Raid Buffs from Groupmates

Blessing of Might Rank 7 or Blessing of Might Rank 6
Blessing of Kings
Blessing of Salvation

Windfury Totem switchable with Grace of Air
Grace of Air Totem R2 / Grace of Air Totem R3
Strength of Earth Totem Rank 4 or Strength of Earth Totem Rank 5

Trueshot Aura

Gift of the Wild

Prayer of Fortitude
Prayer of Shadow Protection

Battle Shout Rank 6 or Battle Shout Rank 7

Blood Pact

World Buffs

Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer Head of Onyxia
Spirit of Zandalar Head of Hakkar
Mol'dar's Moxie Tribute Run
Fengus' Ferocity Tribute Run
Slip'kik's Savvy Tribute Run (needs some testing, if it affects melee crit)
Sayge's Dark Fortune of Damage always click the first message to get the damage buff
Songflower Serenade

Warchief's Blessing Horde only

UI & Addons


Chronometer (Bar for SnD Uptime and others)
BigWigs (Basic Bossmod)
oRA2 (Basic Raidmod)
KLHThreatMeter (Simple Aggro Meter)

and lots of other Addons you can find in the ...


Oto’s UI Compilation


Macros & how to

Sinister (BS/Hemo) + Auto Attack

/cast Sinister Strike
/script if not IsCurrentAction(9) then UseAction(9) end;

This macro allows you to attack your target with Sinister Strike and turns on the auto attack. Useful for every target switch when you don't have energy left or you don't wanna right click on each target.
Attention: you need to put the Spell Attack in your action bar! In my example I put the Spell on the first action bar on the slot 9. This can also be used for BS or HEMO. Just replace the spell name and the energy cost.

This Screenshot can help you by finding the best positions and slot numbers for your macros.

Trinket Button

/script UseInventoryItem(13);

or any other slot, by using this screenshot.

about Oto

I’m currently playing my rogue Oto <NOPE> on Nostalrius Begins, you may also remember me from Emerald Dream Oto <Team Plague> or Warsong Phelps <Work in Progress>

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! To all who helped and read that thread.

about this thread:

I’m open minded for all questions and suggestions according to the rogue guide and hear them out. If you want to add or change stuff, just contact me or post in this thread.

I’ll try to keep it updated all the time.
Last edited by Oto on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 73 times in total.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Solmyr » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:34 am

The guide is not bad for beginners, experienced rogues would find it lacking tho.

I disagree with some aspects, shan't list them all, just give you a few remarks so you have an idea:
  • The second talent build is not optimal, Improved Poisons > Vile Poisons.
  • Depending on your weapon speeds, 2 CP SnD is sometimes optimal as opener.
  • I strongly disagree with your AP=crit / AP=hit / ... tables. Are you only using the linked spreadsheet as a guideline or have you done your own, empirical research?
  • A lot of the stuff in the guide is for 1.12 and thus not applicable on Nos for some time. Also the guide was obviously made for another realm and caters to some of its specific ... features (bugs). Consider revising those parts.

Good job tho, I imagine 99% of the rogue population on the server can learn something from this guide.

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Sergeant Major
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Oto » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:16 am

Hi Kishkumen, nice to see you here again. First of all, thx for letting me know about that.
As i stated above, i will update the whole thing for this server as i am lvling up here. I dont know that much about the server yet, just wanted to bring this to the forum as fast as possible.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by SanderP » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:08 am

Maybe the best rogue guide out there, almost as good as poison spec rogue guide.
Flavie, 60 Hunter
Illusion, 60 Rogue
Star, 43 Paladin
<The Council>
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Oto » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:45 am

theres no way to beat the poison spec rogue guide.. sry to disappoint.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by ohgr » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:42 pm

Not entirely sure what you mean with 5cp to profit with ruthlessness as ruthlessness should still have the 60% (if rank 3) chance to proc from 1cp finishers (or 2 or 3 or 4). Maybe you're confusing it with relentless strikes, which has a 20% chance per combo point spent on the finisher to restore 25 energy?
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Soyoen » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:39 am

Made a quick number crunch in my sheets at a few selectives in the preraid bis list for Combat Swords.

Time simulated: 14400 sec (regular raid time)
Spec: Combat Sword

Ebon mask vs Unforgiven
2,1141 dps in favor to Unforgiven.

Riphook (+22ap) vs Precisely Calibrated Boomstick (+14ag)
Non BOK: Riphook (+0,5888dps)
BOK: Precisely Calibrated Boomstick (+0,0139dps)

+30AP wrists vs Deepfury (15ag 4str)
Non BOK: +30AP (+1,3628dps)
BOK: +30AP (+0,5968dps)

Girdle of Beastial Fury vs Cloudrunner Girdle
Non BOK: Beastial Fury (+0,7606dps)
BOK: Cloudrunner Girdle (+0,067dps)

Swiftwalker vs +40AP (LBRS)
BOK: +40AP (+0,7224dps)

Trinkets (HOJ excluded due to easy #1)
1. Royal Seal vs blackhands (+4,9556dps)
2. Rune of the Guard Captain vs blackhands (+4,6845dps)

Current content: Guard Captain (Horde), Blackhands (Alliance). Will change when DMF: Maelstrom becomes available on certain mobs in raids.

Please notice that this is strictly for combat swords.

Best of regards
RogueDPS Reborn spreadsheet

Thinking about playing rogue, or actively playing? Check out the rogue boards for the essentials of the rogue class - viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24235
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Soyoen » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:47 am

Solmyr wrote:
  • The second talent build is not optimal, Improved Poisons > Vile Poisons.

I'd like to add in for those interested that 2% increase chance in poison proc will increase the dps for Combat Swords by approx 3,616 with the Dal'rend set. If we compare this to one talent point in vile poison to increase poison damage by 4% you only gain approx 1,4464 dps for that talent point.
RogueDPS Reborn spreadsheet

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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Solmyr » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:02 am


Why would you simulate with 14,400 sec?

Unless your spreadsheet also accounts for downtime between trash pulls, energy regen in between, movement on bosses and such, it's not methodologically correct to simulate using such a long time frame.

Longest fight in MC is a few minutes, Nefarian is <10 mins on progress, much less on farm. No fights in the current content allow for double ARs and none in BWL allow for more than 2. Moreover, trash and bossfights involving movement and energy capping are not unimportant.

Therefore, to make simulations based on a large timeframe, is to ignore these factors of raiding.

Don't get me wrong, this hardly invalidates your item comparisons, as those are hardly affected by whether the fight is short or long. However, if you also base talent choices and optimal rotations on the same spreadsheets, you will encounter errors.
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Re: Rogue Guide by Oto

by Soyoen » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:07 pm

Solmyr wrote:@Soyoen
Why would you simulate with 14,400 sec?

Longest fight in MC is a few minutes, Nefarian is <10 mins on progress, much less on farm. No fights in the current content allow for double ARs and none in BWL allow for more than 2. Moreover, trash and bossfights involving movement and energy capping are not unimportant.

Therefore, to make simulations based on a large timeframe, is to ignore these factors of raiding.

Using my sheets in comparison to recap for personal dps the limits are currently +/- 2dps over time. What you want to know from a sheet is (A) how an item performs, and (B) how it performs in comparison to other items over time. When comparing items in these settings you need a large sample size as you will otherwise yield results that are affected by the many RNG factors that the rogue class is subject to in this version of World of Warcraft.

Adrenaline rush is a static cooldown which adds if used correctly about 160 energy, blade flurry increases the attack speed by 20% for 15 secs every 2 minutes. These cooldowns are obviously important and used on boss fights as you mentioned (whilst blade flurry is on ocassions used on smaller packs if you are moving slow).

The core of the calculations however, does not need to factor these events when calculating after whichever rotation you are using, and the addition of these variables will only increase the DPS for that specific amount of time and will not yield any significant results of crit/hit/ap values in regards to the passive core talents in the spec - if anything it will create an unbalance in the sheets ability to reflect these values. When calculating for shorter durations these values can be chosen to be included, which they are, but they will not magically make item A superior over item B.

TLDR 1: The purpose is to gain strong evidence of how items perform and compare against each other, and to do this you need a huge data sample that is not affected by non contributing factors to the basic variables and rotations.

TLDR 2: Lol nerd.

RogueDPS Reborn spreadsheet

Thinking about playing rogue, or actively playing? Check out the rogue boards for the essentials of the rogue class - viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24235
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