Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Youfie » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:03 am

Netherfrost wrote:
Youfie wrote:
Netherfrost wrote:PvE; If swords, human, if dagger/sealfate for AQ+ go night elf.

Well the dodge / Shadowmeld for NE is quite useless in PvE, actually even if you wanna play Daggers, Human remains quite nice anyway for PvE, thanks to the +10% rep.


Ever heard of attributional agility? :). Shadowmeld is of no use in pve, however the dodge is decent for chain cleaves, same reason the ideal pve specc doesnt have imp gouge but dodge.

Lol, if your maxing your character, I guess 1% dodge > +10% reputation indeed, my bad :)
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Dessel » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:04 am

For PvE: human
For PvP: dwarf or gnome
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Hatson » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:47 am

Youfie wrote:Lol, if your maxing your character, I guess 1% dodge > +10% reputation indeed, my bad :)


Night Elves also have a higher base agility score. So that's another bonus. However it's so minimal you would never really notice that bonus base agility much at lvl 60.
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Drain » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:22 am

I encourage you to play the race you like most. I never advocate picking racials as opposed to the race itself. Playing your favorite race, even with garbage racials, is going to be more fun than something you don't like but picked anyway just because it performs better in situation X or Y. But if you want me to share my thoughts, I can go down the line for you.

Human:
-Perception: Useful in PvP generally but "extra" useful as a Rogue. This can be used in stealth and ensures that you see enemy Rogues first. In Rogue vs Rogue fights, it's all about who gets the opener first, and with Perception, that's pretty much guaranteed to be you. But it's junk in PvE, unless your eyes are worse than mine IRL.
-Spirit: Junk.
-Rep: Slightly useful for working end game reps faster, but otherwise junk. You have to decide how much reputation grind cuts are worth to you.
-Weapon Skill: This right here makes Human the winner if you prefer Combat. Human as a whole is a popular race for Warriors/Rogues/Paladins thanks to this bonus. You use Swords/Maces better than anyone else. Less Parries/Dodges/Blocks/Glancing Blows=GOOD.

Dwarf:
-Stoneform gives you the ability to remove annoying bleeds/poisons/diseases, and makes you immune for the duration, which allows you to make Vanish stick where as other Rogues will just have it drop thanks to dot ticks. Dwarf has the best Vanish thanks to this, but it also helps in combat vs Warriors/Rogues who may bleed you(See Deep Wounds and Rupture). Removing Serpent Stings(Poison) and Devouring Plagues(3min CD Disease) isn't bad. But the +armor is basically junk, as it uses a percentage increase, which doesn't mean much using tissue paper armor. Firing this for extra armor won't give you much in leather.
Gun skill: Junk, even if you use guns. Nice as a Hunter, but you're not a Hunter.
Frost Resist: Helpful vs Frost Mages, which are quite a problem for Rogues. This is more useful than your other resist choices.
Treasure Finding: Nice if you want that extra lewt, but it conflicts with regular tracks. Again, up to you. I'd personally like to have this, but I don't like Dwarf/Gnome/midgets.

Night Elf:
-Shadowmeld: Simply having this improves your natural stealth, giving you a better stealth level than any other player. Basically, you have a MoD point for free, going beyond 5/5, or allowing you to hold back a point and letting the racial compensate for it. But with 5/5 MoD, your stealth will be better than everyone else's, as you have this extra bonus they cannot acquire. Elf has the best stealth. Like with Perception, this can mean getting the opener first. This bonus isn't as massive as Perception, but it's always active, and also helpful in PvE. Improved stealth works vs mobs, Perception doesn't do anything as they are already visible. Shadowmeld also enables stealthing when stealth is on CD, since it has its own separate CD. This means you can bypass the 10s CD and force stealth, with the downside being that you can't move until you switch over to your native one. Sometimes helpful.
-Dodge: Quite helpful. I highly rate this. Mobs are always frontal, and plenty of PvP attacks will be frontal as well. Rogues are naturally gimp with low health/armor, so when physical attacks connect, they hurt. 2hs and Windfury=BIG HURT. +Dodge=less hurt. Stacks with your natural dodge and Evasion.
-Wisp Form: Quite helpful out in the world, but totally worthless in BGs and nearly worthless for dungeon runs or raids as you still have to wait for everyone else. I personally always liked this racial, but I don't blame you if you put it down. It's more valuable if you die frequently, and less valuable if you rarely die. That's not something I can predict for you.
-Nature Resist: Junk (Helpful vs Boomkins, if you can find one to fight)

Gnome:
-Escape Artist: Quite weak for a Rogue, as you already have ample CDs to control being rooted or distanced from your target; you're probably better off with any of the other choices. But it does mean removing that annoying Frost Nova without burning a better CD. It removes all snares/roots, and can potentially reserve better CDs you'd have used to deal with them. The problem is that it's largely unneeded in PvE, meaning that you have no racials at all.(See below)
-Intellect: Junk when you don't use intellect.
-Arcane Resist: Junk (Resist an occasional Polymorph and that's about it)
-Engineering Skill: Junk if you aren't Engineering.
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Netherfrost » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:34 pm

Hatson wrote:
Youfie wrote:Lol, if your maxing your character, I guess 1% dodge > +10% reputation indeed, my bad :)


Night Elves also have a higher base agility score. So that's another bonus. However it's so minimal you would never really notice that bonus base agility much at lvl 60.


At AQ bis its about 1.5-2 more dps) - You ask for bis race, so bis race you shall get.
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Gelbin » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:32 pm

Drain wrote:I encourage you to play the race you like most. I never advocate picking racials as opposed to the race itself. Playing your favorite race, even with garbage racials, is going to be more fun than something you don't like but picked anyway just because it performs better in situation X or Y. But if you want me to share my thoughts, I can go down the line for you.

Human:
-Perception: Useful in PvP generally but "extra" useful as a Rogue. This can be used in stealth and ensures that you see enemy Rogues first. In Rogue vs Rogue fights, it's all about who gets the opener first, and with Perception, that's pretty much guaranteed to be you. But it's junk in PvE, unless your eyes are worse than mine IRL.
-Spirit: Junk.
-Rep: Slightly useful for working end game reps faster, but otherwise junk. You have to decide how much reputation grind cuts are worth to you.
-Weapon Skill: This right here makes Human the winner if you prefer Combat. Human as a whole is a popular race for Warriors/Rogues/Paladins thanks to this bonus. You use Swords/Maces better than anyone else. Less Parries/Dodges/Blocks/Glancing Blows=GOOD.

Dwarf:
-Stoneform gives you the ability to remove annoying bleeds/poisons/diseases, and makes you immune for the duration, which allows you to make Vanish stick where as other Rogues will just have it drop thanks to dot ticks. Dwarf has the best Vanish thanks to this, but it also helps in combat vs Warriors/Rogues who may bleed you(See Deep Wounds and Rupture). Removing Serpent Stings(Poison) and Devouring Plagues(3min CD Disease) isn't bad. But the +armor is basically junk, as it uses a percentage increase, which doesn't mean much using tissue paper armor. Firing this for extra armor won't give you much in leather.
Gun skill: Junk, even if you use guns. Nice as a Hunter, but you're not a Hunter.
Frost Resist: Helpful vs Frost Mages, which are quite a problem for Rogues. This is more useful than your other resist choices.
Treasure Finding: Nice if you want that extra lewt, but it conflicts with regular tracks. Again, up to you. I'd personally like to have this, but I don't like Dwarf/Gnome/midgets.

Night Elf:
-Shadowmeld: Simply having this improves your natural stealth, giving you a better stealth level than any other player. Basically, you have a MoD point for free, going beyond 5/5, or allowing you to hold back a point and letting the racial compensate for it. But with 5/5 MoD, your stealth will be better than everyone else's, as you have this extra bonus they cannot acquire. Elf has the best stealth. Like with Perception, this can mean getting the opener first. This bonus isn't as massive as Perception, but it's always active, and also helpful in PvE. Improved stealth works vs mobs, Perception doesn't do anything as they are already visible. Shadowmeld also enables stealthing when stealth is on CD, since it has its own separate CD. This means you can bypass the 10s CD and force stealth, with the downside being that you can't move until you switch over to your native one. Sometimes helpful.
-Dodge: Quite helpful. I highly rate this. Mobs are always frontal, and plenty of PvP attacks will be frontal as well. Rogues are naturally gimp with low health/armor, so when physical attacks connect, they hurt. 2hs and Windfury=BIG HURT. +Dodge=less hurt. Stacks with your natural dodge and Evasion.
-Wisp Form: Quite helpful out in the world, but totally worthless in BGs and nearly worthless for dungeon runs or raids as you still have to wait for everyone else. I personally always liked this racial, but I don't blame you if you put it down. It's more valuable if you die frequently, and less valuable if you rarely die. That's not something I can predict for you.
-Nature Resist: Junk (Helpful vs Boomkins, if you can find one to fight)

Gnome:
-Escape Artist: Quite weak for a Rogue, as you already have ample CDs to control being rooted or distanced from your target; you're probably better off with any of the other choices. But it does mean removing that annoying Frost Nova without burning a better CD. It removes all snares/roots, and can potentially reserve better CDs you'd have used to deal with them. The problem is that it's largely unneeded in PvE, meaning that you have no racials at all.(See below)
-Intellect: Junk when you don't use intellect.
-Arcane Resist: Junk (Resist an occasional Polymorph and that's about it)
-Engineering Skill: Junk if you aren't Engineering.


Very nice post! You describe things like I haven't looked at it before. Thank you!
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Youfie » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:50 pm

Netherfrost wrote:
Hatson wrote:
Youfie wrote:Lol, if your maxing your character, I guess 1% dodge > +10% reputation indeed, my bad :)


Night Elves also have a higher base agility score. So that's another bonus. However it's so minimal you would never really notice that bonus base agility much at lvl 60.


At AQ bis its about 1.5-2 more dps) - You ask for bis race, so bis race you shall get.

How much base agility do NE have versus others races exactly ?
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Netherfrost » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:54 pm

Human = 130, NE = 135, effectively 5,5 agi gain with kings, in addition to the master 1% dodge.
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Rinzler » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:34 pm

Human because perception and weapon skill if you are into pve tryhard, gnome for escape artist and not much else, small size shouldnt matter unless you're fighting some bum who cant start attack macro.
Last edited by Rinzler on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rogue Human/Gnome/Night Elf/Dwarf

by Hatson » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:34 pm

Netherfrost wrote:
Hatson wrote:Night Elves also have a higher base agility score. So that's another bonus. However it's so minimal you would never really notice that bonus base agility much at lvl 60.


At AQ bis its about 1.5-2 more dps) - You ask for bis race, so bis race you shall get.


#WorthIt!
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