Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Healing

Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Imbaslap » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:32 am

tested this out in BWL/MC http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRGsVioobxtcs

worked great except I'm at 773 +healing in 8/8 t2 in my gear alone. The PI is for boosting lock/mage dps on encounters in raids.. the only crap part about it is getting familiar with timing the PI with specific casters and their CD's and ofcourse it being up for the boss. the issue I really disliked was PI being on cooldown between bosses if they are short between eachother. (used it on ebonroc, couldn't on flamegor)

the 3min CD really is a pain.

martyrdom comes in handy if you get mobs on you that do small damage (whelps from suppression room) as well as any 5 man content or soloing. the imp mana burn is very handy in pvp and AQ20/ZG for mana draining. it's not Amazing, but having mana burn on a faster cast time can come in handy when needed. I was thinking about dropping imp mana burn and/or martyrdom for 5/5 silent resolve IF it came down to those 2 talents being worthless for full threat reduction. (less fade use).


I wouldn't recommend ALL priests go PI spec until they have enough +healing from gear to compensate the healing loss from SG and SH from Holy tree. personally, 700+ healing is a good indicator to swap to PI.

we're gonna try 2 PI priests out to help ensure uptime on our selected caster for dps boost. anymore would be more work and less of a safety blanket for healing in my opinion.. (more to manage with your selected caster and such)

definitely test PI build out though and get with a caster or 2 that you wanna work with. it's easier to manage with a lock or a mage.. just make sure you use PI after they use Arcane power. if you PI before AP, it will overwrite PI.. but if you try to PI with AP up, it wont waste the PI (fail to cast due to stronger spell active).

very fun build though no doubt and worth the extra effort. your caster/s will love you too.



btw: force of will does not affect healing at all.. it is only damage and offensive crit. not healing.. so it is a dead talent for healing.

do not waste points into improve renew if you're thinking about going PI build. a priest with SG and SH would have more +healing on their renew than you with 3/3 imp renew in PI build.. it's not worth it.. the 5% crit will help make up some of the +healing loss from SG&SH if anything. if you want a designated renew priest with 8/8 t2, make them go SG and SH holy build and cover the highest hot coefficient for that spell. PI build is not for renew use. (sadly, I am only one with 8/8 t2 in guild cuz priest tier 2 never drops. rip) SG gives bonus to the gheal renew from 8 piece as well for more stacking.

holy nova and extra range for that and Poh will come in handy later on in AQ20 and other content. don't trade that range bonus for 10 extra heals per tick on renew! it's not worth the death!

mental strengths mana bonus applies after gear and consumables(distilled wisdom).. so yes, you will gain a lot more mana to help offset some of the loss from PI and lower healing per spell. you can check out your setup with the theorycrafting addon.. just click on the numbers next to the talents and it will give you the values with 0/5 SG and 5/5 SG. same with SH so you can see how much +healing exactly you are losing per spell.
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Synesthesia » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:41 am

TLDR FIRST BEFORE WALL OF TEXT
I am a <NOPE> fanboy and this spec is geared more towards AQ20/AQ40 than BWL/MC/ZG. NOPE does strats where priests smite bosses and it gives a bonus to Mana Burn so thats why I value that point in force of will. I think getting 1 yard on holy nova per point and 3 per point on prayer of healing isn't worth and imp renew is useful in pve and pvp and 5 mans and everything. Boosted dps is shorter fight times which means the healing you lose isn't actually lost.

no priest should ever be using 8/8 if they have access to boots of pure thought and empowered leggings

also other stuff but that was a long tldr


Imbaslap wrote: the issue I really disliked was PI being on cooldown between bosses if they are short between eachother. (used it on ebonroc, couldn't on flamegor)

the 3min CD really is a pain.


This build really is geared towards AQ20/40 content and not so much current content since everyone with a brain has it on farm. You won't have the CD problem in AQ20 or AQ40.

Imbaslap wrote:btw: force of will does not affect healing at all.. it is only damage and offensive crit. not healing.. so it is a dead talent for healing.


This just goes with the imp mana burn since using silent resolve is literally worthless, but the 1/5 in the spec you linked is just as worthless so its just a point for whatever, like, fuck it put it in wands it really doesn't matter.

Imbaslap wrote:do not waste points into improve renew if you're thinking about going PI build. a priest with SG and SH would have more +healing on their renew than you with 3/3 imp renew in PI build.. it's not worth it.. the 5% crit will help make up some of the +healing loss from SG&SH if anything.


The most +healing priest should have renew on the MT, but the rest of the raid renews are fair game, but its extremely situational, I just value the imp renew in more situations, in raid or out, than the alternatives.

Imbaslap wrote:if you want a designated renew priest with 8/8 t2, make them go SG and SH holy build and cover the highest hot coefficient for that spell.


no priest should be 8/8 if they have access to empowered leggings boots of pure thought etc. pull up any <NOPE> priest and most of them have the bis gear which is definitely better than 8/8. The renew you get from 8/8 is 1/3 that of max rank, and not worth it.

Imbaslap wrote:PI build is not for renew use.


PI is not to be used on healers.

Imbaslap wrote:holy nova and extra range for that and Poh will come in handy later on in AQ20 and other content. don't trade that range bonus for 10 extra heals per tick on renew! it's not worth the death!


2 extra yards on holy nova means nothing. 6 extra yards on poh also means nothing. I've never ever had a situation where I was casting a prayer of healing and been like "shit I wish that person was 6 yards closer" since every situation where its necessary is when the raid is taking aoe damage and groups are close together. Even in viscidus and huhu, depending on your guild, the players in each individual group will(should) be close to their group.

Imbaslap wrote:mental strengths mana bonus applies after gear and consumables(distilled wisdom).. so yes, you will gain a lot more mana to help offset some of the loss from PI and lower healing per spell.


The thing is, even with all this shit and you get to like 10k mana, you should never drop below 4k unless there are deadweight healers in the raid.

Another priest in my guild made the change to PI 3 weeks ago and I changed for my first raids last week. In the numbers and theorycrafting, which you can do all day every day, you are losing out on heals and this and that, however, in practice, I noticed approximately NO difference. Even in the numbers on raidstats I don't see any significant loss in healing. What I do see, is higher dps for casters that get PI, and higher dps is the same as needing less heals on a boss in any amount of time. It balances out, and by balance out, I mean if you have 6 strong casters with 6 PIs, bosses will die faster, you will heal less.

Oh and also the force of will thing, <NOPE> priests throw on dps gear on some bosses in BWL and MC and smite spam or whatever and it helps kill times significantly. Not a lot of guilds use their strats and stuff, but just things we've been looking in to.
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Imbaslap » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:29 pm

is this a dick slinging thread or about the PI build?
I think you're jumping to assumptions thinking I have access to boots of pure thought and chrom legs...

you must have read my reply wrong as it has nothing to do with NOPE.

but cheers for derailing a good thread about PI build for other priests looking to amp up their game.


it became a dick slinging thread when you said this.

Synesthesia wrote:"This build really is geared towards AQ20/40 content and not so much current content since everyone with a brain has it on farm. You won't have the CD problem in AQ20 or AQ40.."


Synesthesia wrote:"I am a <NOPE> fanboy and this spec is geared more towards AQ20/AQ40 than BWL/MC/ZG. NOPE does strats where priests smite bosses and it gives a bonus to Mana Burn so thats why I value that point in force of will. I think getting 1 yard on holy nova per point and 3 per point on prayer of healing isn't worth and imp renew is useful in pve and pvp and 5 mans and everything. Boosted dps is shorter fight times which means the healing you lose isn't actually lost."



Synesthesia wrote:"Oh and also the force of will thing, <NOPE> priests throw on dps gear on some bosses in BWL and MC and smite spam or whatever and it helps kill times significantly. Not a lot of guilds use their strats and stuff, but just things we've been looking in to."


Synesthesia wrote:"So, with aq40 in mind, I made a few specs, not sure which one is the most worth it, I assume the difference is very small in the grand scheme of things, but discussion is encouraged."


Synesthesia wrote:"no priest should be 8/8 if they have access to empowered leggings boots of pure thought etc. pull up any <NOPE> priest and most of them have the bis gear which is definitely better than 8/8. The renew you get from 8/8 is 1/3 that of max rank, and not worth it.."


it is apparent you want to dick sling rather then talk about the spec. you already sound like a huge hypocrite from just your post. is this a spec for AQ20 and AQ40 or BWL/MC? obviously each to their own, but the spec is pretty straightforward on what the priest will gain and lose by going this spec.
some fights are not caster friendly in AQ40/BWL, popping PI on a healer is situational rather then fixated on DPS only. the whole renew suggestion is spot on, but again you dick sling and assume every priest has access to 2 of the best +healing legs and boots from BWL. some people get bad RNG... we're not NOPE who get BIS loot every run. you also assume everyone who runs 8/8 t2 is bad for utilizing a free HOT that stacks with max rank renew AND scales with +healing bonus's........ :lol: nice comparison again to only 1 guild...

synesthesia the next theloras of the priests? I think so. :lol:
basing assumptions off of easy content that you aoe down is not something to tailor a whole spec around for the next tier of content that is NOT aoe clearable. but hey, that's up to you for going off of what someone else does rather than figure what's best for you and your guild.


using strats and comps for BWL is not the same as AQ40.. unless NOPE magically raids AQ40 without our knowledge. I think you need to stop comparing what 1 guild does to BWL/MC for factual standpoints in a totally different raid tier that is not even out yet on Nostalrius.

you also consider silent resolve as a shit talent, but what about horde side? what about no salvation faction?
you never considered how OP PI would be on a shaman's chain heal during an encounter where the warlocks are threat capped and raid damage is heavy? what's the point of using PI on a lock when they cant even use it 100% fully... you may as well beef up the healing capability of a shaman for OP chain heal during a bursty raid damage phase..

/failfish. <3 how you ignore the horde faction with your biased NOPE only fanboy post within the priest forums. I'm sure you know everything about the priest class and what's best based on what 1 guild for 1 faction does in brain dead content. 8-)



let's get some horde priest opinions on this thread while we're at it.
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Synesthesia » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:45 pm

I intentionally left horde out of it because Dreamstate clearly knows what they're doing and every other good raiding guild is alliance :geek:

is this a dick slinging thread or about the PI build?
I think you're jumping to assumptions thinking I have access to boots of pure thought and chrom legs...


you do though
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Ayag » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:19 am

This sort of derailed but I personally would not use a PI spec for BWL considering the amount of aggro-sensitive bosses (which is .. all except Nef & Razzorgore basically).

On the other hand, in AQ it indeed can be a great boost considering the amount of non-aggro sensitive fights and it's indeed very very useful for C'thun (be it phase 1 or phase 2).
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by varth » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:02 pm

"I intentionally left horde out of it because Dreamstate clearly knows what they're doing and every other good raiding guild is alliance"

Lol get your elitist shit out of here. You make all these big assumptions without even know what you are talking about. If alliance/horde was on an even playing field from a PvE perspective then you could judge, but it's 100% accepted that it's not. How about we go back to theory crafting and away from you being a elitist.

PI is great for burst content such as huhu/Cthun, and apparently it's fantastic for fire mages for stacking ignite since the +20% applies to the entire stack if you PI the first mage that crits if you keep that stack rolling. At the moment my guilds current plan for AQ is 2 8/8 priests full holy, 1-2 PI priests, and one max +healing full holy for max renew ticks.
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Ayag » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:22 pm

Don't forget Ouro (can't take aggro as a range) or Twins (if the unbreakable aggro works properly and it's a long fight, you could cast it 2-4 times).

I tried for Ouro/C'thun tonight and it's pretty good. It is sort of better to be PI in farmed content if you don't need the extra healing (even if you forget the CD sometimes..).

We don't organize our priests that tightly, but I guess this setup works :)
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Imbaslap » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:16 am

don't listen to Synethesia, he is Bow in disguise.

but yes, we also came to that conclusion that 2 PI priests, 2 strong holy priests(8/8 t2) and a 5th or 6th priest to fill whatever is left was an ideal choice of composition. it is a different case for alliance as priests are nicer to have over 10 pallys. horde have shamans so I can see priests being brought for certain methods. (dispel magic and such).

horde has it differently. it's not cut and dry like synethesia proclaims it to be. a powered up shaman chain heal can do amazing things on huhu or utilizing it on caster dps. either way, PI has its uses in different scenarios. for alliance side, we're considering running up to 3 PI priests max to boost dps/aoe more with the option to boost other healers when needed.
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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Proctologist » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:50 am

Mate just spec 32/19 (or 31/20)
It's what we ran in Clutch, Judgemant(ED) and now in Coalition

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Re: Correct Healing spec.. with PI and without %Spirit=Heali

by Synesthesia » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:51 pm

Proctologist wrote:Mate just spec 32/19 (or 31/20)
It's what we ran in Clutch, Judgemant(ED) and now in Coalition

dis be mine
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxgusVVoobxtcc



the threat talent is 5 wasted points
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