Lorilay wrote:Taladril wrote:Lorilay wrote:Math time. Thanks mainly to our warlock overlords (all hail the burning legion), here's your overall dps calculation for spamming starfire in a raid (assuming you have nature's grace, and miss is 17-your hit):

(StarfireBase+spellpower)(1+crit/100)(1-miss/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100)

Now, there's three variables that can affect your dps here: spellpower, crit, and hit. However, they're all related to each other so it isn't a linear relationship.

The derivative of spellpower (x) to your damage is: (1+crit/100)*(1-miss/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100)

The derivative of crit (y) to your damage is: (StarfireBase+spellpower)(1/100)(1-miss/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100)

The derivative of hit (z) to your damage is: (StarfireBase+spellpower)(1+crit/100)(1/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100)

Therefore:

1 crit = y/x spellpower

1 hit = z/x spellpower

This is a little more comprehensive than static values used in the druid gear lists and it beats testing without full raid debuffs (specifically curse of shadow) on mobs.

Could you clarify these equations a bit? I'm pretty hopeless at feeling 100% confident at doing algebra correctly so I don't want to derive it myself. There needs to be more parentheses to tell me where exactly the multiplier and divider are in order of operations. I will run some numbers in spreadsheets to get a sense of how it looks and we can compare to keftenk's real world results. Thanks.

Caveat: I shamelessly stole this from all the hard work Cousy and Particles have done to optimize warlock and mage dps. Druid is considerably easier to do, since we don't have stupid things like Arcane Power, Improved Shadowbolt, and Ignite to worry about.

(StarfireBase+spellpower) Starfire is a 3.5 second base cast, so there is no spellpower coefficient. Your damage is just the base damage of Starfire + your total spellpower bonus.

(1+crit/100) If you have 20% crit, your damage will be increased by 20%, assuming you have 5/5 vengeance.

(1-miss/100) If you have 10% miss, that will be a straight 10% loss to your dps.

(3-0.5*crit/100) This calculation is for dps. Starfire has a (talented) 3 second cast, and your crit % of the time it will be 0.5 seconds faster with nature's grace. **Edit: I forgot to divide your crit by 100 for this. That makes a fairly significant difference, lol. I edited it into my earlier posts.

Now, what we're really interested in is applying this to gear choices, so it's important to identify how each stat contributes to dps. Not that each contribution depends on the other two variables. This is why you need to use derivatives instead of just algebra.

(1+crit/100)*(1-miss/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100) This is what modifies the contribution of spellpower to damage. (dps/sp)

(StarfireBase+spellpower)(1/100)(1-miss/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100) This is what modifies the contribution of crit to damage. (dps/crit)

(StarfireBase+spellpower)(1+crit/100)(1/100)/(3-0.5*crit/100) This is what modifies the contribution of hit to damage. (dps/hit)

Using the first derivative above, you should find that 1 spellpower will increase your dps by x (something around 0.35-0.42ish, depending on your gear). To find how much spellpower 1 crit equals, just divide dps/crit by dps/sp. The terms cancel out and you get sp/crit. You can calculate sp/hit in the same way.

So, if you wanted to make a spreadsheet of gear upgrades, you would want to first list how much hit (listed on the item), spellpower (listed on the item), and crit (listed on the item + int/60) on each piece of your gear, then add them together to get your total stat values. Then determine the dps increase from each of those 3 stats (using the respective derivative above), and add them together for the total damage provided by a specific piece of gear (dps/sp + dps/crit + dps/hit). Then you can swap in alternate gear to determine the dps increase by it.

It's worth pointing out that this is just for maximizing your potential dps, with no regard to silly things like mana regen. There's no way to reliably model that, so I would suggest gearing for maximum dps and then swapping regen items if you're finding yourself perma-oom before the end of a fight.

Lorilay wrote:Keftenk wrote:So, is this right?

Bloodvine Goggles: 3.418327759

The Hexxer's Cover: 3.579733333

Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer: 3.595986622

What did I do wrong? Lol..

Assuming you have pretty good gear equipped: 659sp, 22.67% crit, 10% hit (7% miss)

dps/crit = (485.5 + 659)(1/100)(1-7/100)/(3-0.5*22.67/100) = 3.69

dps/hit = (485.5 + 659)(1+22.67/100)(1/100)/(3-0.5*22.67/100) = 4.86

dps/sp = (1+22.67/100)(1-7/100)/(3-0.5*22.67/100) = 0.40

Note that the values above will change slightly if you swap in other pieces of gear below (I calculated them with Mish equipped). I was also too lazy to change the value of int from 55 to 60 per crit (mages get +int talent), so the math doesn't add up perfectly.

Mish: (24/60 + 2) crit * 3.69 + 35 sp * 0.40 = 22.82 dps

Goggles: 1 crit * 3.64 + 2 hit * 4.65 = 12.94 dps

Cover: 10/60 crit * 3.69 + 41sp * 0.39 = 16.51 dps

Hey Lorilay, thanks for contributing! (I know that's a big ass quote tree, but it's easy to just click on page 9 of this thread and see both of these posts)

I've been trying to tackle how to incorporate your functions, but it seems like I need to have the character's overall stats. Is there a way to handle this with no reference to the character's overall spell/crit/hit and just use the item stats itself?

The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to keep it as general as possible. I guess I would have to create 2 base character sheets for BiS and pre-raid BiS as references and plug in the values accordingly. I'd follow Guybrush's style of sheet here and just modify your functions into Google sheets so it's an easy plug and play.

He has .45 dps/spell but he's on the higher end of gear. And you're right, it is unreliable to model how mana regen/high mana pool items can affect a fight, but I'd still like to find good mana regen for longer endurance fights lasting maybe over 3 mins. I think mana is still definitely an issue for Boomkins even with full consumption of potions for these longer fights. Obviously you want to deplete all your mana before the fight ends, but if you do so before it ends, you're going to drop in overall damage, a very real problem for Boomkins (assuming the raid leader forces you to save Innervate for healers). So if you had something like 50 mp5 over 1 minute, it's 600 mana, a little under 2 additional casts per minute. And I bet if you stack mp5 buffs (Wisdom/Sagefish/Mageblood) alongside mp5 item stacking, you can get upwards of close to 100 mp5.

I'll probably use realmplayers and find the average length of fights and just post it on the original post like "Hey, these fights last on average ~3-5 minutes and some are extremely long ~5-10 minutes, so swap out to mp5 gear here!"

Another thing is Starfire 6 vs Starfire 7 (AQ20 Book). So I'd use Starfire 6 as the base for 1.7-1.8 calculations, and then Starfire 7 for 1.9 and beyond.

I'm thinking I'll just create 2 Character sheets, one for absolute BiS and one for pre-raid BiS. Let me know what you guys think.

EDIT:

I guess the ultimate end game is to determine

DPS, DPS/crit, DPS/hit, DPS/sp, DPS/int

and sp values: 1 sp = 1 sp, 1 crit = ? sp, and 1 hit = ? sp.

Using 414 spell damage, 6% hit (11% miss), 6% items + 3% crit aura + (348/60=5.8%) = 14.8%, and 348 int

and your formulas

Starfire 6: 445-526 arcane damage (485.5 average), 3 sec cast (after talents)

(copy and paste equation into google for quick answer )

dps/crit = (485.5 + 414)(1/100)(1-11/100)/(3-0.5*14.80/100) = 2.74 (seems low?)

dps/hit = (485.5 + 414)(1+14.80/100)(1/100)/(3-0.5*14.80/100) = 3.53 (again seems low?)

dps/sp = (1+14.80/100)(1-11/100)/(3-0.5*14.80/100) = 0.35

1sp = 1sp

1crit = 7.82 sp

1hit = 10.08 sp

For Guybrush's Warlock sheet:

6.75 dps/crit

6.61 dps/hit

.45 dps/sp

1sp = 1sp

1crit = 14.97 sp

1hit = 14.68 sp

So I guess hit and crit are just flat out worse than stacking spell damage because Starfire receives 100% spell power?