Hybrid Shaman PvP

[boobane92]

Hello!

I have a question i want create a Hybrid shaman for PvP i searched already and didnt found anything about.
I already made my own Talent tree and want to know youre opinion about.

here is the link

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hE0 ... czZVcbx0xo

sorry for my bad english

[Jurary]

If you want to run 2H enh hybrid caster, I'd roll something like this.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hvczxf0oZxVbzZx0ez

you could take 2pts out of increased dmg on shocks/lightning from ele and put them in reduced grounding totem cd

[Ninjerk]

I'd go with the tree that guy replied with. It's quite a bit better.

[Oldlemon]

this is what I use

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#heczxc0oZxVfzV0ux

[Aslan]

Be sure to have your 1h+shield on hand vs warriors and rogues and a 2h with spelldamage (once available) as anti-kite vs ranged classes.
I suggest weaponquickswap addon

[Aethelwulf]

I have a question i want create a Hybrid shaman for PvP i searched already and didnt found anything about.
I already made my own Talent tree and want to know youre opinion about.

here is the link: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hE0 ... czZVcbx0xo

First things first: I hope you're playing a Tauren. The ability to War Stomp and cast with your enemy stunned cannot be understated. Now, your resto tree is fine but your ele is bad. 5/5 reverberation is a must if you go into the ele tree and Elemental Devastation is trash for PvP. You're not probably not going to cast spells in melee that aren't shocks or Lesser Healing Wave and the +9% melee crit chance for 10 sec that procs on a spell crit is so damn rare you will basically almost never see an extra melee crit out of your Elemental Devastation. It might do something that one time but you have better talents than that.

If you want to have a hybrid build, I would recommend going 30/0/21 and using a Slavedriver's Cane for your 2H swings. It has a damn solid 3.9 attack speed and +29 strength and +12 stam plus it's staff which means it's a 2H you can use without investing 11 points in Enhance. You might want to put a Fiery enchant on it if you want to obtain spell damage on your melee. 30 Ele gives you the -1 cast speed on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning which is MASSIVE for rdps and 21 resto gives you the all-important Nature's Swiftness along with a 70% interrupt resist so you can self-heal in combat. This one opted for +3% melee and spell hit over the spell crit most shamans take since you want to hybrid it up. Normally crit is slightly better since heals don't benefit from +hit (and your 3/3 Ancestral Healing gets more use out of crit), but it's rather marginal.

If you want to run 2H enh hybrid caster, I'd roll something like this.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hvczxf0oZxVbzZx0ez

you could take 2pts out of increased dmg on shocks/lightning from ele and put them in reduced grounding totem cd

That is terrible. You will basically never manage to heal yourself in PvP other than the Tauren War Stomp -> LHW. You don't even have Nature's Swiftness, the best shaman talent, for a clutch instant cast. The way your build works is: You don't have the spell dps of ele, you don't have the heavy hits of enhance, and you don't have the self-heals or instant cast of resto. It's weak in every aspect.

this is what I use

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#heczxc0oZxVfzV0ux

You're better off going 0/30/21 and collecting Nature's Swiftness, which is probably the strongest enhancement build. The main draws of your ele tree are Elemental Warding, Eye of the Storm, and Reverberation. The mana cost reducers aren't as crucial when you're not going to spam spells, and Elemental Fury without high crit or spam-casting isn't that great either. Healing Focus beats your Eye of the Storm for self-healing since it doesn't require you to get crit first, and Nature's Swiftness beats both Elemental Warding and Reverberation with its ability to instantly heal you or lightning enemies.

[Jurary]

If you want to have a hybrid build, I would recommend going 30/0/21 and using a Slavedriver's Cane for your 2H swings. It has a damn solid 3.9 attack speed and +29 strength and +12 stam plus it's staff which means it's a 2H you can use without investing 11 points in Enhance. You might want to put a Fiery enchant on it if you want to obtain spell damage on your melee. 30 Ele gives you the -1 cast speed on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning which is MASSIVE for rdps and 21 resto gives you the all-important Nature's Swiftness along with a 70% interrupt resist so you can self-heal in combat. This one opted for +3% melee and spell hit over the spell crit most shamans take since you want to hybrid it up. Normally crit is slightly better since heals don't benefit from +hit (and your 3/3 Ancestral Healing gets more use out of crit), but it's rather marginal.

First off, I don't know where you pull your data from, but Slavedriver's Cane is a 3.40 with no stats here.
Second, you're really recommending him to use a 2h with strength yet spec for pure caster and nothing else?
Third, you dare make a build that has both Healing Focus, and Eye of the storm, yet no elemental warding or improved GW for PvP?

You act like it's impossible to healing without NS/HF/EOTS, ever heard of jukes?

If you want to run 2H enh hybrid caster, I'd roll something like this.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#hvczxf0oZxVbzZx0ez

you could take 2pts out of increased dmg on shocks/lightning from ele and put them in reduced grounding totem cd

That is terrible. You will basically never manage to heal yourself in PvP other than the Tauren War Stomp -> LHW. You don't even have Nature's Swiftness, the best shaman talent, for a clutch instant cast. The way your build works is: You don't have the spell dps of ele, you don't have the heavy hits of enhance, and you don't have the self-heals or instant cast of resto. It's weak in every aspect.

The guy asked for a hybrid build linking his ele/enh/resto build. Obviously he wanted something that has the best of all trees in one. The tree I linked him is just that for him. Wield a 2h axe or mace, have heavy critting shocks and some healing power. You seem to think no build is viable without NS, that's just plain wrong.

You're better off going 0/30/21 and collecting Nature's Swiftness, which is probably the strongest enhancement build. The main draws of your ele tree are Elemental Warding, Eye of the Storm, and Reverberation. The mana cost reducers aren't as crucial when you're not going to spam spells, and Elemental Fury without high crit or spam-casting isn't that great either. Healing Focus beats your Eye of the Storm for self-healing since it doesn't require you to get crit first, and Nature's Swiftness beats both Elemental Warding and Reverberation with its ability to instantly heal you or lightning enemies.

Elemental warding, Clearcasting, Cost reduction and Reverberation are some of the strongest talents you can have as enhancement who has crazy mana problems especially in PvP, constantly switching totems, having to quick cast mostly relatively inefficient heals, and using shocks as the main source of your damage outside of WF. Furthermore, you leave out Stormstrike, which in itself is a free AA with a chance of proccing WF and increased the damage of one of your hardest hitting shocks by 20% (on top of the 100% crit damage you get from going into ele).

I think you're wrong on many accounts here.

[Aethelwulf]

First off, I don't know where you pull your data from, but Slavedriver's Cane is a 3.40 with no stats here.

Okay, that blows then.

Second, you're really recommending him to use a 2h with strength yet spec for pure caster and nothing else?

Yes. Being a hybrid is about owning face and having options at your disposal, not about sucking at everything. And sometimes it's more about smart itemization than talent usage. Those 11 points in Enhance don't turn you into a murder machine. The only thing they contribute offensively is the 2H. If Slavedriver's Cane were at the stats I assumed, it's a good enough 2H that you simply don't need 11 points of enhance to beat people senseless with a 2H. If you want to be a legitimate caster as shaman, it's 30 point ele or bust since cast time reduction is that important. It increases your lightning DPS by 50%.

Otherwise I would recommend a 0/30/21 build so that you have that clutch cast and those heals, but that's basically playing Enhancement build.

Third, you dare make a build that has both Healing Focus, and Eye of the storm, yet no elemental warding or improved GW for PvP?

Yes, absolutely. Here's the PvP video I'm basically ripping off: Part 1 Part 2. If you can't watch Part 2 because of a region thing, just download it through this KeepVid link.

And lets look at Elemental Warding: 10% less nature/frost/fire damage. Sounds strong. Now which classes actually do a large amount of damage in frost/nature/fire? Really just mages and caster shamans. Theoretically fire warlocks too, but almost no lock goes fire spec, not even for PvP. Since you're a shaman, you won't be PvPing shamans, so this is 3 points that are only strong against non-arcane mages. Do you need this to beat them? Not really. What would you even trade to pick up Elemental Warding anyway? I'm curious on that one.

Also, did you know you can Nature's Swiftness Ghost Wolf?

You act like it's impossible to healing without NS/HF/EOTS, ever heard of jukes?

Ever heard of mortal strike, stunlocks, and plain damage interrupts? NS lets you squeeze a huge self-heal into spaces where it's otherwise impractical/impossible (between MS/stuns/etc) and grab that extra heal right when you really need it. It also lets you instant cast when you need that extra burst of damage. It's not a question of what's possible. Bad players settle for what's "possible." Good players go for what's "best."

The guy asked for a hybrid build linking his ele/enh/resto build. Obviously he wanted something that has the best of all trees in one. The tree I linked him is just that for him. Wield a 2h axe or mace, have heavy critting shocks and some healing power. You seem to think no build is viable without NS, that's just plain wrong.

I just happen to think NS is too good to pass up on in any build. I think it's the best talent shamans have for clinching close fights.

Elemental warding, Clearcasting, Cost reduction and Reverberation are some of the strongest talents you can have as enhancement who has crazy mana problems especially in PvP, constantly switching totems, having to quick cast mostly relatively inefficient heals, and using shocks as the main source of your damage outside of WF. Furthermore, you leave out Stormstrike, which in itself is a free AA with a chance of proccing WF and increased the damage of one of your hardest hitting shocks by 20% (on top of the 100% crit damage you get from going into ele).

I think you're wrong on many accounts here.

First off, his build doesn't have Stormstrike. It's 21/30/0. Don't ask me why. I would agree that Stormstrike is better than Elemental Fury. Second off, resto packs -5% mana cost on heals and -10% mana cost on totems. Third, Reverb is great, no denying it, but NS is greater.

[Jurary]

Yes. Being a hybrid is about owning face and having options at your disposal, not about sucking at everything. If you want to be a legitimate caster as shaman, it's 30 point ele or bust since cast time reduction is that important. It increases your lightning DPS by 50%. Sometimes it's more about smart itemization than talent usage. Those 11 points in Enhance don't turn you into a murder machine. The only thing they contribute offensively is the 2H. If Slavedriver's Cane were at the stats I assumed, it's a good enough 2H that you simply don't need 11 points of enhance to beat people senseless with a 2H.

I'd say cutting 1 second off a 3 second cast would translate into a 33% dps increase if all you did was spam that same spell all the time.

Those 11 points in enh allow you to pick up either 5% mana or a big survival increase while wielding a shield, as well as 1sec GW instead of 3sec. Furthermore you can reduce the cd of grounding by 2 seconds, which can easily make or break a fight.

And lets look at Elemental Warding: 10% less nature/frost/fire damage. Sounds strong. Now what damage do classes use in PvP? But which classes do a large amount of damage in frost/nature/fire? Really just mages and caster shamans. Theoretically fire warlocks too, but almost no lock goes fire spec, not even for PvP. Since you're a shaman, you won't be PvPing shamans, so this is 3 points that are only strong against non-arcane mages. Do you need this to beat them? Not really. Lets go back to Eye of the Storm. How often is being interrupt immune useful? Pretty often. What would you even trade to pick up Elemental Warding anyway? I'm curious on that one.

Elemental warding is so important as a shaman. It literally means dying or surviving a fire/frost mage combo, or that rogue opener with reduced poison damage (gl casting NS when dead). Also, as a shaman you will be locking a Warlock's shadowspell school pretty often, which means he will often resort to filling the gap with searing pain.

I don't really understand why you keep using the word interrupt-immune for EOTS. What it does when it procs is give you 100% immunity to being delayed on hit. It does not grant you immunity to interrupts, or silences or whatever. It's basically a 100% healing focus for any spell while active.

Obviously you would trade 3% damage in the first tier of elemental for the Elemental Warding talent.

Ever heard of mortal strike, stunlocks, and plain damage interrupts? NS lets you squeeze a huge self-heal into spaces where it's otherwise impractical/impossible (between MS/stuns/etc) and grab that extra heal right when you really need it. It also lets you instant cast when you need that extra burst of damage. It's not a question of what's possible. Bad players settle for what's "possible." Good players go for what's "best."

So does warstomp, on a shorter cooldown.

[Aethelwulf]

I'd say cutting 1 second off a 3 second cast would translate into a 33% dps increase if all you did was spam that same spell all the time.

I'd say your math needs help. Here: Given 6 seconds, a 3 second cast makes 2 lightning bolts. With a 2 second cast, you get 3 lightning bolts. That's 50% more.

Those 11 points in enh allow you to pick up either 5% mana or a big survival increase while wielding a shield, as well as 1sec GW instead of 3sec.

And NS lets you insta-cast GW. The shield bonus is okay, but it's just phys and you're making it sound like it's +5% dodge.

Furthermore you can reduce the cd of grounding by 2 seconds, which can easily make or break a fight.

That one's pretty legit.

Elemental warding is so important as a shaman. It literally means dying or surviving a fire/frost mage combo, or that rogue opener with reduced poison damage (gl casting NS when dead).

You only need maybe a tenth of a second (if you're slow) to NS+GHW yourself back up as resto. You can actually heal yourself mid-combo with NS.

Also, as a shaman you will be locking a Warlock's shadowspell school pretty often, which means he will often resort to filling the gap with searing pain.

True. But even if fire is 50% of the Warlock's DPS on you (which I doubt), that means you reduced 5% of the damage you took. The Mage is 10% if he's not arcane, sure, but that's just 2 classes and I'm not convinced it's a clincher.

I don't really understand why you keep using the word interrupt-immune for EOTS. What it does when it procs is give you 100% immunity to being delayed on hit. It does not grant you immunity to interrupts, or silences or whatever. It's basically a 100% healing focus for any spell while active.

The text says interrupt, but yeah, I mean delay.

Obviously you would trade 3% damage in the first tier of elemental for the Elemental Warding talent.

I'd rather have the +3% damage vs everyone than a 10% vs frost/fire mages and maybe 5% vs Warlocks.

So does warstomp, on a shorter cooldown.

And warstomp is amazing, but NS is even better and you should still grab both.