Shaman vs Warlock

[wiseoldenemy]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew any tricks in this matchup. Against all other classes I can win but against this one I just can't figure it out. If your gonna say "oh its impossible just run away" then don't say it because I believe any class can win any 1v1, just might be much harder to do it depending on the matchup... Usually when I get stuck against a class I eventually find something that can make me win. BTW I play an enhancement build, focusing on stam/int and crit.

[Thatoneguy]

Get yourself the Ultra-Flash Shadow Reflector and a Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector.

I can give some general tips but it would be more effective if you show us the exact build you're using.

[wiseoldenemy]

Its a standard enhance talent point build, I have The Unstoppable Force and the rest pvp/blue items. trinkets are PvP trink, arathi basin trink (for warriors) and 175 engi for iron grenades.

[Thatoneguy]

Is it enh/ele with maxed out Elemental Warding and Eye of The Storm? or enh/resto with 3/3 Nature's Guidance. Do you have Healing Focus, Totemic Mastery and NS with it?

There's no real standard enhance build as they all have deviate from each other which plays a role when fighting locks.

[wiseoldenemy]

right now its ele/enh with eye of storm... if you can also explain how a 30/21 enh resto build would work against it

ty

[Thatoneguy]

Eye of the Storm can play a crucial factor if the Warlock sends his pet after you do deal melee dmg. Create a /sit macro and get yourself critted for little damage in order to gain free casting. During the free casting period keep an eye out for Fear, always stop casting CL/LB or your healing spell to interrupt Fear.

Some Warlocks use Soul Link, this is a buff that redirects 30% of the damage taken to the pet. Keep in mind that this is a pet buff, purging the Warlock will not remove this buff. You will have to purge the pet to get rid of Soul Link. Warlocks will likely re-apply Soul Link and you can purge it again, buffing costs more than purging so you're winning the mana battle here.

During this match-up you should be prepared to heal as early as 80% health. When you've taken damage but you're waiting for another shock or SS and the situation allows for it just get yourself back up. Healing resets the swing timer (LB and CL do not), which goes directly against what you want as Enhancement. Elemental Shamans have a much easier time healing early as they can cast CL or LB right after.

If you feel like you can win the mana battle then every GCD should be spend on doing something.

Using your shocks to lock your opponent CC or healing school has priority. For a Warlock this means that you will want to lock out Shadow. Sometimes Warlocks keeps using fire spells in the hopes that you're ES on it, don't fall for it and keep it available until he casts a Shadow spell that you want to stop.

Keeping Grounding totem and Termor totem up, this is crucial. Searing totem can help as it has very good dmg output for its mana cost, but you have to be careful not to waste a GCD on it when you could've used a higher priority spell.

There is still a chance for you to get completely rekt by a Warlock. If their Mortal Coil doesn't get grounded and you walk outside of Tremor totem range you're usually done for. As Enhancement there are times where you can't prevent this from happening unless you use engineering tools.

Getting lucky on WF (Crits!) during your oppening will change the match up to a more even position, they will have to spend time getting their health back while you can start interrupting their spells. Sometimes Warlocks will try to kite you. In BGs and WPvP you don't always have to chase, you can simply run away when they try to kite you and heal yourself, mount up and go in for a fast attack. If they start to kite you during duels you're usually finished, but a well timed Trinket that dispells your slows can get you back into it.

As Elemental and Resto you will have an easier time vs Warlocks because your mana pool can outlast theirs. Soon they will start to lifetap to gain that extra bit of burst power and that's when you strike them. If all else fails I recommend getting as much Shadow Resistance as you can find. Once you have about 150+ in both Shadow and Fire you will begin resisting spells completely on a regular basis, this makes them waste a lot of mana. But some people don't consider this 'fair game'.

[wiseoldenemy]

Hm, I find healing early, or even anytime at all is too slow. They can just spell-lock or coil you during a heal, and it takes off any pressure you've built.

I recently have been having some success. I open up with ghost wolf, and save my grounding totem letting him put his dots on me as I run up to melee range. Then, I pop the totem once im near or in melee range in anticipation for his deathcoil. If he uses it, I then just keep auto attacking and saving earth shock for interrupt or dps, resulting in a win 100%. If he sees the totem and kills it, then I know hes about to coil so I use a nade. If this fails then hopefully he doesn't have enough dps or crit to kill me after a coil. Maybe as hes killing off my totem I can get a heal in to tank some damage? it seems to be all about the deathcoil. I also have another tactic, if I know hes going to use coil at an awkward time, I will wait till he uses it and pop totem as its travelling, kind of hard to do and reflexive. This the prevents him from casting a shadowbolt unless he destroys the totem, which will give me enough time to come back and shock the shadowbolt.

It doenst feel like I have enough time to do play defensive, like I would vs a pally or a druid. The shadowburn and shadowbolt crits are just too much.

thanks for your input it helped see more perspective on the matchup. If you have more info to share that would be great.

[Thatoneguy]

Keeping the pressure up is important. My mana pool is quite large (6.1K unbuffed) compared to my health (3.4K) this changes the fight a bit. As long as they deplete their mana earlier than I do I know I will win. Once they begin to lifetap and lifesteal I can pressure them hard.

I think that if you're going to get CS'd you want it to happen early when you can still take a big junk of damage. Knowing that your casts are safe for the next 24 seconds also helps a great deal. But if a different approach works better for you then go for it.

Deathcoil is indeed a key decider of this matchup, but they should not ever use it when you're away from them because an enhancement Shaman is no threat from a distance.

[wiseoldenemy]

Wow, 6k unbuffed? what gear do you have. I have 3.6k hp and 4.3k mana, I'm rank 7 right now and I have a bunch of blues and skyfury helm, with the unstoppable force as a weapon. About the deathcoil timing, you can still do it even if you are melee, since as long as i see it coming out of the locks hand and press grounding it will ground before, or right as its hitting me.

BTW, I thought grounding totem worked only when the spell is being released? can you really react to an instant cast, even if its 30 yards and still ground it?

Also, I might make some more match-up threads and see if people have some advice to give it. Maybe Shaman vs Warrior, or Shaman vs druid, those can be pretty hard.

[Thatoneguy]

Nice, I'll have to try and ground it. I'm currently playing as a 2H Resto Shaman. I have the ZG enchants on both my legs & head which give me +26splldmg and +30 intellect in total, that helps quite a bit. I also have the Deep Earth Shoulders, Zandalar Augur's Hauberk and Draconic Maul, the rest is not really worth mentioning... aside from my engineering stuff of course. I have about 190 nature spell dmg without trinkets and 4700 armor with shield.

My Shaman vs Warrior consists of Frost Shock kite + LS damage (LS is insane, keep it up). Some other stuff I do:

- I like to thrown in a Fire Nova totem for added dmg.
- Use my PvP trinket to get rid of Hamstring and give myself some breathing. If you're not slowed then you can kite warriors in a 'deadzone' just like you can with hunters because Charge & Intercept have a minimum range of 8.
- Gnomish net-o-matic is great as well. Rooting them (even if they dispell it) gives you some time to recover.

For Druids I don't know, I've never had any problems beating them. If they're feral you should always equip a 1H+shield, as with any melee. Never go 2H vs any melee class. Purging their hots and ES'ing their casts puts them in trouble. Chasing them can be difficult and if they really want to get away, they will.