Shaman tank Talent build

Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Dr. Doom » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:41 am

After reading the section dedicated to shaman from Kenco's threat guide, I noticed that the 72 per second bonus threat is only meant to happen for rank 7. It made sense to me, since assuming that 72 per second was the value for every rank (only bonus AP changing), it would mean that in your level 20s, when you can do about 50 damage by autoattacking with a 2.0 weapon, you would be doing 194 (144 due to 2.0 speed + 50 damage threat) threat per swing, just under 4x threat: damage ratio for merely auto attacking, leagues ahead from a warrior using heroic strike or a druid using maul, moves where they are burning rage.

I scoured the web trying to find what should be the bonus threat additions for lower ranks then, and after having little to no luck, I stumbled upon a thread in valkyrie wow, Russian private server that offers the following information:

https://valkyrie-wow.org/forum/index.ph ... wissue=160


I currently have trained ranks 1-5 and will proceed to test if they add bonus threat (will use damage meters) and if they do, if the values reflect this bit of information, or something else.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Dr. Doom » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:03 am

Used db.vanillagaming as well and the extra threat value on each rank of Rockbiter suggested there is the exact same as those posted above:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=20860

Effect #1 (77) Script Effect
Value: 6

All the other ranks, seen in the related tad below, match the suggestion I found in valkyrie.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Dr. Doom » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:42 am

In order to do extensive testing with each rank of rockbiter (maybe also go over Earth Shock), I would like to ask for anyone's help here.

My shaman's name is Koomix. Whisper me if you find me online and you have about 30 minutes to spare. Level doesn't really matter, we can do some basic testing just using Barrens mobs like Mizu did.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Mizu » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:27 pm

The threat modifiers for each rank are in one of the lua files of KTM, I posted the section of code earlier. It's pretty consistent with what you found. I was able to verify that the first couple ranks of Rockbiter don't add the bonus threat.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Baby Seal » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:19 am

Ok both ES and RB3 are broken definitely. I did a barrens Zevra test just like Mizu. I'll make a bug report also.This SUCKS.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Dr. Doom » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:23 pm

Baby Seal wrote:Ok both ES and RB3 are broken definitely. I did a barrens Zevra test just like Mizu. I'll make a bug report also.This SUCKS.


Tell me about it. Means that shaman tank as it stands needs to be at a minimum number of 91% (technically 90. something would work ) of your top DPS to hold aggro.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Baby Seal » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:48 pm

I guess you could still run with lower levels pretty well. I mean you have done that pretty successfully, and even with equal levels. I've done it too, with less success but still pretty decently, considering.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Dr. Doom » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:27 pm

Baby Seal wrote:I guess you could still run with lower levels pretty well. I mean you have done that pretty successfully, and even with equal levels. I've done it too, with less success but still pretty decently, considering.


Yep, I have. The thing is that shaman dps with a 1hander/shield is leagues ahead of what a warrior with a 1h/shield, paladin dps with 1h/shield or bear form druid can pull off. If you compound that with lightning shield dealing the highest damage of all thorn spells, and add the 110% and 130% threat values required for aggro swap, it is very possible to get a good grab on a mob by having lightning bolt + earth shock + attack with rockbiter (extra AP even if bonus threat is bugged) and lightning shield proc, and then proceed to hold it so long as you stay on top of it. After all, the 110% and 130% requirements mean that the longer you hold the mob, the higher and higher the damage required for dps to pull away from you is.

I tested this yesterday, got a former level 29 twink rogue with fully enchanted and maxxed gear, a shaman with corpsemaker + windfury who would spam shocks as enhanc dps, in order to see how dealing with threat with maxxed dps would go like.

With the rogue finishing as first dps in the meters, he took less damage than the shaman (who finished instead as 2nd dps). Why? Starting with cheap/garrote, and building up small amoutns of damage on the way to a big 5 point eviscerate meant that I had time for early damage build-up to actually keep the mob. And it worked, even doing less damage than him I kept Electrocutioner, Thermaplugg and other Gnomer bosses on me just fine due to the threat formula.

The 2h shaman however, while dealing lower damage on average, consistently made it hard by having an initial high burst that pulled mobs on to him, and finished 2nd in most damage taken.

My conclusion is that, the way things stand, it is possible to pull off tanking by relying on the naturally high shaman damage, and asking your dps to open with slow damage moves and save their high damage moves for a few seconds down the fight... just like any dps should anyway.

But yeah, this makes it undoubtedly harder. I suppose that strictly speaking, it might be better threat to use frost shock than earth shock due to higher damage (at least it is for me right now).

Will keep bumping the earth shock ticket in the bugtracker I have. I fyou do open a new one for rockbiter, link it here as well so we may keep track of it too.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Mizu » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:21 am

Having tanked before and after the fix on Rebirth, one of the biggest differences in 5-mans is that AoE tanking becomes way easier and you use much less mana. As for raids, it gives you a pretty useful niche as a threat generating monster, in addition to actually being able to hold threat on main targets.

I'd love to see the fix implemented on this server too. All of them, for that matter.
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Re: Shaman tank Talent build

by Baby Seal » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:21 pm

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