The best Elemental build for PvP

Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Jurary » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:21 am

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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Killstick » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:41 am

Depends on how you play it tbh Jurary. This build seems indeed good for pure hybrid resto/elemental. I guess that is why you are going for the 3p T1/T2. It also matters if you want to keep the whole set mail and not mix in cloth.
With the current stats on T2 I'd take only max 3 pieces. 2 of those for certain are the boots and legs. I'd probably go for the shoulders as the 3rd piece since Deep Earth are pure nature dmg.

Some stuff i'd change personally to play it a bit more offensive.

Head: Hexxer's Cover
Neck: Firelord but realisticly you will be going for a 2nd choice like Darkmoon atm
Chest: ZG
Bracers: ZG
Belt: Mana ign or Firemaw
Trinket: I prefer ZHC over the class trinket.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Schoof » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:20 am

I think as a shaman you would have very low odds of getting Mana Igniting Cord and Firemaw.

Is Primalist's Linked Waistguard (http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19393) a decent alternative?
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Killstick » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:51 am

Schoof wrote:I think as a shaman you would have very low odds of getting Mana Igniting Cord and Firemaw.

Is Primalist's Linked Waistguard (http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19393) a decent alternative?


I'd still prefer Firemaw's. But ofc.

And i think Jurary is in a position where he would have atleast a shot on a mana ign cord.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Thatoneguy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:05 pm

My character:

Roughly 4K health, 5.5K mana and 250 Nature Spell Damage.

- 1H Claw of Chromaggus / Deathbringer (Deathbringer scales with SP which is good in melee range.)
- Shitty shield. Still want the one from Ragnaros.
- 2H Herhald of Woe (not using it atm as I don't have 2H talent.)
- Tier 2 head (pretty garbage in the current patch, will become better for Elemental.)
- Shitty AV neck (should use the ZG neck for the 3 set bonus...)
- Deep Earth Shoulder (easily BiS shoulders for ele.)
- ZG chest (incredible for ele.)
- ZG bracer (decent but very good if you get the 3set bonus.)
- PvP hands (to get the set bonus.)
- Tier 2 legs
- PvP boots (a must for +15% movement speed.)
- Ring 1 Zanzil's Seal (+1% spell hit, caps spell hit.)
- Ring 2 AV exalted (1% melee hit, caps melee hit.)
- All the Engineering trinkets such as the reflectors reflectors, grand arena trinket, Class trinket, Zandalarian Hero Charm, PvP trinket and maybe more that I forgot. (I switch trinkets the moment I go out of combat.)

I prefer the ZHC over the class trinket. The cooldown is 2 minutes vs 5 minutes, it adds more dmg for the first couple of shots and it doesn't drain 20% more mana, which is a big deal. The class trinket will scale better though.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Aethelwulf » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:58 pm

Thatoneguy wrote:I WPvP roughly 20 hours a week. Running around the world searching for 60s and killing them is what I like doing most. I often find myself in 1v2 and 1v3 fights where high mobility required in order to create favorable situations. A 3 second cast on GW is too long. With Imp GW you can chase down any class but Druid as it makes Shaman the second fastest class in the game. But without it Shaman is the slowest class, the difference is noticeably big.


You're a Shaman. You create mobility with Earthbind and Frost Shock if necessary. For an Elemental Shaman, mobility is more about keeping people at a distance than keeping them near you. In a 1v2 or 1v3, I'd rather have the Trinket+NS+Healing Wave for a surprise 2K+ self-heal non-crit. Put a potion on top of that and you have some strong staying power in fights where you're outnumbered. If you go Engineer, you can also use a Discombobulator Ray (consumable item) for a 20% slow (and dismount) or pack Goblin Rocket Boots for a sprint (+70% movespeed on 5min cd) if you want. And there's always the option of keeping a Swiftness Potion ready too.

NS is simply better.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Thatoneguy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:43 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:You're a Shaman. You create mobility with Earthbind and Frost Shock if necessary. For an Elemental Shaman, mobility is more about keeping people at a distance than keeping them near you.


No, you don't 'create mobility' with Earthbind and FS. With Earthbind and FS you hamper your opponent's mobility, there's a BIG difference between the two. Mobility is not 'more about keeping people at a distance than keeping them near you'

Decreasing the mobility of your opponent does not magically increase yours. Here is the definition of mobility so you can understand it yourself: 'capable of moving or of being moved readily from place to place.'

Aethelwulf wrote:In a 1v2 or 1v3, I'd rather have the Trinket+NS+Healing Wave for a surprise 2K+ self-heal non-crit. Put a potion on top of that and you have some strong staying power in fights where you're outnumbered. If you go Engineer, you can also use a Discombobulator Ray (consumable item) for a 20% slow (and dismount) or pack Goblin Rocket Boots for a sprint (+70% movespeed on 5min cd) if you want. And there's always the option of keeping a Swiftness Potion ready too.


There's no way in hell you're going to consistently pull off 1v2s and 1v3s with that much emphasis on defensive play. I seriously question if you've ever won 1v3s.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Aethelwulf » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:23 pm

Thatoneguy wrote:No, you don't 'create mobility' with Earthbind and FS. With Earthbind and FS you hamper your opponent's mobility, there's a BIG difference between the two. Mobility is not 'more about keeping people at a distance than keeping them near you'

Decreasing the mobility of your opponent does not magically increase yours. Here is the definition of mobility so you can understand it yourself: 'capable of moving or of being moved readily from place to place.'

Playing semantic games doesn't make your point any smarter. In PvP, mobility is relative. It doesn't matter how fast you move; rather, it matters how much faster you move than your enemies. I guess I was expecting too much of you that I didn't bother pointing that out. You'll have to explain why you're determined to tout the value of a faster movespeed and I suspect the answer is because you really like Ghost Wolf and can't think of a way to play without IGW.

There's no way in hell you're going to consistently pull off 1v2s and 1v3s with that much emphasis on defensive play. I seriously question if you've ever won 1v3s.

You know, there's nothing remotely resembling a coherent point or argument in there. Just a lot of strongly-worded language saying "It shouldn't work because I said so." It doesn't make you a clever boy. And PvP is all about cleverness.

And since you are framing NS as strictly defensive, I'm going to remind you that how you use NS really depends on the circumstances. Mind, if you have an ugly 1v2 or 1v3 headed your way, you could easily NS+Ghost Wolf and get the hell out. You could save your NS for a heal so that you don't get killed from a burst spike or go too low after you kill the first guy. You could also try to burst one out immediately (really you should be doing this anyway) and then take out the rest. And maybe you won't even need NS. It all depends on the circumstances.

At the end of the day you're just trying to pretend really hard that your 31/7/13 spec is better for Shamans than 30/0/21 and frankly I think you're deluded. Particularly when you are pushing for 2/2 Improved Ghost Wolf rather than 2/2 Guardian Totems.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by Thatoneguy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:58 pm

Aethelwulf wrote:Playing semantic games doesn't make your point any smarter. In PvP, mobility is relative. It doesn't matter how fast you move; rather, it matters how much faster you move than your enemies.


It's not a game of semantics because they way you put it is incorrect.

You make it out as if mobility is strictly relative to that of your opponent, but it is not. Movement in PvP is measured in the absolute sense of each unit. The difference is important because in the absolute sense, your movement speed stays the same when you use Frost Shock and Earthbind. Why is that important? Because in any situation where you have to move an absolute distance the relative movement speed between you and your opponent does not matter. Nearly every fight has its moments where absolute movement speed is a key factor.

Lets say even when only the relative movement speed counts. In the situations where the importance of mobility is relative to that of your opponent, even then you can't increase your mobility by using Frost Shock or Earthbind, no not even your relative movement speed. You can only decrease the movement speed of your opponent.

This is not about semantics as you like to put it, this is about being correct and simply put, the way you make it out to be is wrong.
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Re: The best Elemental build for PvP

by lakers8 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:17 pm

30/0/21 all day
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