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Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:55 pm
by JCarrill0
Ourk wrote:
JCarrill0 wrote:
Headpiece:


Hello,

I was wondering why the Dark Iron Helm wasn't on this list, even perhaps at the top because of its huge amounts of armor and stam.

My more theoretical question is: how do you select and prioritize items? Have you some spreadsheet or do you use some stats weights or values?

Thank you for the answer.

Your more then welcome to use that for tanking if that is what you find is the best for you, as for BiS, it's weighted based on the available stats used against other while maintaining a close to 440 Def as possible for tanking. Since the Dark Iron Helm feature a Fire Resistance it's considered BiS for FR gear, but not for Tanking even though it has considerable Stamina on it.
You have to remember this is Vanilla, not retail, Def Matters a lot here.
A green item with 21 Stamina vs a Blue item with 10 Stamina and 10 Def, the blue item wins based on the DEF top priority (if your in need of DEF, which normally you are).
Lets weight that vs a Green item with 13 DEF, vs a blue item with 15 Stam, 3 Def. You want again the blue since def may be the priority, but You want stam to come a long ways. This can be contradicted since if your in serious lack of def, but have considerable Stamina, you may save the green item with 13 def for boss fights to come closer to the Def mark.

PS - I apologize in advance for the mess, it's early in the morning for me and I haven't taken the time to clean up this post.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:36 am
by Ourk
Tyvm for your answer! :P

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:14 am
by Cysthen
Disagree slightly with your bis endgame, but thats in regards to the server I used to play on where enemies did significantly more damage. That being said your bis is fine.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:42 pm
by JCarrill0
Cysthen wrote:Disagree slightly with your bis endgame, but thats in regards to the server I used to play on where enemies did significantly more damage. That being said your bis is fine.

What do you recommend? I used alternatives as well bud!

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:15 pm
by Cysthen
JCarrill0 wrote:What do you recommend? I used alternatives as well bud!


Helm: Helm of Domination
Enchant: 7 Defense/10 Stamina/24 Healing

Neck: Mark of C'thun

Shoulders: Pauldrons of the Unrelenting
Enchant: 16 Stamina 100 Armor (Sapphiron Enchant).

Cloak: Cryptfiend Silk Cloak
Enchant: 1% Dodge

Chest: Icebane Breastplate
Enchant: 100 Health or 4 All Stats

Bracers: Dragonbone Wristgaurds
Enchant: 9 Stamina

Gloves: Gauntlets of Steadfast Determination
Enchant: 15 Agility

Belt: Royal Qiraji Belt

Legs: Bloodsoaked Legplates
Enchant: 7 Defense/10 Stamina/24 Healing

Boots: Boots of Unwavering Will
Enchant: 7 Stamina

Ring: Angelista's Touch

Ring: Ring of Emperor Vek'lor

Trinket: Styleen's Impeding Scarab

Trinket: Onyxia Blood Talisman.

Weapon: Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
Enchant: 15 Agility

Consecrate Swap Weapon: The End of Dreams
Enchant: 30 Spell Damage

Shield: Blessed Qiraji Bulwark
Enchant: 2% Block

Libram: Libram of Hope

This set list reaches exactly 440 defense and achieves high avoidance. I realize the Saph Trinket has more block and a nasty cooldown and I would say its better for aoe tanking, Garr for example. Although for single target tanking I would recommend this set for it doesn't go over def cap at all and higher avoidance. (not counting block).

I noticed you had alternatives and these items were in there as well I just wouldn't use your bis list to main tank if I had all items available. Also End of Dreams has higher spell damage thus making it a better swap weapon than Wraithblade.

I understand the concept of why you would want to use Wraithblade if it was a "using it all the time" sort of thing but even still I personally would weigh the mp5 on End of Dreams slightly higher than spell hit or crit. Especially on a server with blizzlike drop values on Demonic Runes.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:35 pm
by smilkovpetko
I realize the Saph Trinket has more block and a nasty cooldown and I would say its better for aoe tanking


Don't forget that saph Trinket give us enormous amount of "block value" which together with our shield absorbtion is increased by 30% , this is much better than onyxia by far for damage mitigation.

Also End of Dreams has higher spell damage thus making it a better swap weapon than Wraithblade.


not true at all , they have exactly the same spell damage , also with lot spell damage faster weapon is by far better to use for lot threat generation.

I understand the concept of why you would want to use Wraithblade if it was a "using it all the time" sort of thing but even still I personally would weigh the mp5 on End of Dreams slightly higher than spell hit or crit. Especially on a server with blizzlike drop values on Demonic Runes.


dark runes here are cheap , 5 gold per 1

wraithblade benefit our spell crit for exorcism/judge of righteousness/holy wrath and the extra spell hit due to "partial resists" level based to reduce the numbers that get resisted.

consumes in raid is mandatory , not using demonic/dark runes and major mana pots is no go , also if you use mana pots and demonic/dark runes the mp5 from end of dream is worthless.

Garr for example.


This is not feenix , Garr adds here will 1 shot you if you solo tank all adds.

Weapon: Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker


even though you can benefit from rogue or another warrior this is terrible for aggro , this is not feenix and seal of righteousness hit much lesser here , spell damage is mandatory to do threats (this weapon also doesn't scale with spell damage).

libram of hope is inefficient , i'd rather use BiS libram that will increase our threats while we keep jotc and swinging with sor , this way we won't need to waste too much mana and we can still do high threats

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:02 pm
by smilkovpetko
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 4986_o.jpg

using 44 spell damage

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 2657_o.jpg

using 92 spell damage


faster weapon = more swings = more aggro , you don't even have to waste mana for aggro.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:42 am
by Cysthen
smilkovpetko wrote:
I realize the Saph Trinket has more block and a nasty cooldown and I would say its better for aoe tanking


Don't forget that saph Trinket give us enormous amount of "block value" which together with our shield absorbtion is increased by 30% , this is much better than onyxia by far for damage mitigation.

Also End of Dreams has higher spell damage thus making it a better swap weapon than Wraithblade.


not true at all , they have exactly the same spell damage , also with lot spell damage faster weapon is by far better to use for lot threat generation.

I understand the concept of why you would want to use Wraithblade if it was a "using it all the time" sort of thing but even still I personally would weigh the mp5 on End of Dreams slightly higher than spell hit or crit. Especially on a server with blizzlike drop values on Demonic Runes.


dark runes here are cheap , 5 gold per 1

wraithblade benefit our spell crit for exorcism/judge of righteousness/holy wrath and the extra spell hit due to "partial resists" level based to reduce the numbers that get resisted.

consumes in raid is mandatory , not using demonic/dark runes and major mana pots is no go , also if you use mana pots and demonic/dark runes the mp5 from end of dream is worthless.

Garr for example.


This is not feenix , Garr adds here will 1 shot you if you solo tank all adds.

Weapon: Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker


even though you can benefit from rogue or another warrior this is terrible for aggro , this is not feenix and seal of righteousness hit much lesser here , spell damage is mandatory to do threats (this weapon also doesn't scale with spell damage).

libram of hope is inefficient , i'd rather use BiS libram that will increase our threats while we keep jotc and swinging with sor , this way we won't need to waste too much mana and we can still do high threats


Okay first of all. I am not going to get into a crazy heated debate. As a SWAP weapon you never attack with End of Dreams is a better conc swap weapon with a chance to regen mana. Also your mention of weapon speed is false if the tooltip holds true, weapon speed shouldn't affect righteous seal. I also would like to say that in bis gear your block will be above 50% with holy shield regardless of using Saph trink or not. That being said the additional % is not that big of a deal because its already a 1 out of 2 chance not only that dodge/parry is much better than block because you still take damage blocking. The reason why I mentioned it was good for aoe like Garr is because holy shield stacks would fly off extremely fast and the additional block would be better used in that situation as well as the cd is good. Your statement about Garr adds not being aoe'able is false. Our warrior in Pantheon does it every week, Garr is offtanked away from adds, but not too far that it blows up the aoe tank. Shield and Top off the aoe tank when garr hits 50% to prevent him from dying. Thats how the fight works here.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:33 am
by smilkovpetko
As a SWAP weapon you never attack with End of Dreams is a better conc swap weapon with a chance to regen mana


that is what i already mention , this is not feenix . Weapon swapping here is terrible aggro due to many factors - sor is bad without sp , jor is working with partial resists and have chance to full resist , you can't have juju of intellect etc. mana regen from end of dreams is poor and if you use demonic rune/major mana potion is worthless.

Also your mention of weapon speed is false if the tooltip holds true, weapon speed shouldn't affect righteous seal.


the spell damage affects , with more spell damage it end up high numbers each swing and with more swings it end up with more holy dmg.

I also would like to say that in bis gear your block will be above 50% with holy shield regardless of using Saph trink or not.


our avoidance thanks to Holy shield will always be 85% overall , with highest chance of Block , but we don't care for extra 1% parry or 2% block which is useless in this point compare to "block value" where you mitigate high amount of damage thanks to shield absorbtion talent .

That being said the additional % is not that big of a deal because its already a 1 out of 2 chance not only that dodge/parry is much better than block because you still take damage blocking.


we don't care for extra 1% parry or 2% block which is useless in this point, we use it for block value which is more beneficial and higher stat than any sort of avoidance explained above.

Your statement about Garr adds not being aoe'able is false

i might been wrong about that but :

still 2% block or 1% parry are nothing there to compare with the block value , block value is the key.
1-2% is 1 or 2 hits out 100 which is tiny pearl , but block value is for each block damage which will happen any blocked damage.

our stats always are def cap>stamina>block value>parry>dodge>block>whatever.
our aggro always is spell damage weapon (not for consecration swapping) but for holy shield,seal of righteousness,judgemenet of righteousness.

for Bossfights you need spell damage otherwise you are just a trash and worthless tank there that will oom extremely fast and do nothing .

we have paladins which tried your guide for consecration swapping in server ,they all end up bad due to poor aggro because in feenix overall abilities was working stronger than here .

Also you can't stack juju for intellect and this will affect your mana in server.

after all there is no point to cast consecrations on 1 target if you can do that only with melee swings .

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 53#p263215

why would i waste mana for consecrations when i can waste mana for holy shields or keep it for fights where need tank swapping in order to squeeze the threats?

SoR will do better job than consecration without any mana wasted over 30 seconds. by the nature of how spirit work , your mana will always be max regenerated over this 30 seconds.

Re: Tankadin - Dungeon Tanking gear guide.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:10 pm
by JCarrill0
Cysthen,
While you 2 Swop out this debate, I think I have everything you listed... some for alternative yes, but again I think I have everything listed. Did I miss anything? (that basically was my original question)