Redoubt + CTC

[TheFishyOne]

'ey guys. Was an avid Pallytank in TBC, but never got a chance to live my Vanilla Dream on live, so I'm gonna go for it here.

In TBC, CTC was paramount to achieve preraid, and once achieved as a Pallytank, you were easily the most stable tank in the game. Is CTC even possible for a Pallytank to achieve in Vanilla with only gear/enchants + HS?

I would also like to know if Redoubt has any bearing on attaining CTC (at least, as far as eliminating CB goes). In TBC it was the epitome of garbage talents, taken only because it was required for shield spec. I figure that Blizz MUST have had a purpose in mind for it. Is there any reason to take it into account while gearing, or is it just one of those Dumb Talents I Gotta Take(©)?

Finally, in TBC the numbers to attain CTC were 490 Def, and 102.4% Avo. I imagine you need 102.4% Avo here, as well, but what about minimum Def for uncritability (assuming Redoubt is worthless here, too)?

Thanks in advance!


(Inb4 lolprot or reroll war) I am well aware that Warriors are better at tanking raid bosses with less skill required. I also couldn't care less. Pallies were given a Prot tree for a reason, and I intend to fully explore it.

[Theloras]

'ey guys. Was an avid Pallytank in TBC, but never got a chance to live my Vanilla Dream on live, so I'm gonna go for it here.

In TBC, CTC was paramount to achieve preraid, and once achieved as a Pallytank, you were easily the most stable tank in the game. Is CTC even possible for a Pallytank to achieve in Vanilla with only gear/enchants + HS?

I would also like to know if Redoubt has any bearing on attaining CTC (at least, as far as eliminating CB goes). In TBC it was the epitome of garbage talents, taken only because it was required for shield spec. I figure that Blizz MUST have had a purpose in mind for it. Is there any reason to take it into account while gearing, or is it just one of those Dumb Talents I Gotta Take(©)?

Finally, in TBC the numbers to attain CTC were 490 Def, and 102.4% Avo. I imagine you need 102.4% Avo here, as well, but what about minimum Def for uncritability (assuming Redoubt is worthless here, too)?

Thanks in advance!


(Inb4 lolprot or reroll war) I am well aware that Warriors are better at tanking raid bosses with less skill required. I also couldn't care less. Pallies were given a Prot tree for a reason, and I intend to fully explore it.

Redoubt is an absolutely godly talent for AOE tanking or grinding where you don't need to be uncrushable or uncrittable - especially if you have Force Reactive Disc as the shield procs on every block.

[TheFishyOne]

In what situations can you get away with being crittable? Even as a trash tank in TBC, my guild still required me to be at least uncrittable.

Also, do you know the order of precedence for Redoubt vs. HS when both are up at the same time?

[smilkovpetko]

when you eat stuns , it still procs even if you are def cap. good luck

[Theloras]

In what situations can you get away with being crittable? Even as a trash tank in TBC, my guild still required me to be at least uncrittable.

Also, do you know the order of precedence for Redoubt vs. HS when both are up at the same time?

just /sit and voila you are crit and proc redoubt

[Tyraeus]

'ey guys. Was an avid Pallytank in TBC, but never got a chance to live my Vanilla Dream on live, so I'm gonna go for it here.

In TBC, CTC was paramount to achieve preraid, and once achieved as a Pallytank, you were easily the most stable tank in the game. Is CTC even possible for a Pallytank to achieve in Vanilla with only gear/enchants + HS?

I would also like to know if Redoubt has any bearing on attaining CTC (at least, as far as eliminating CB goes). In TBC it was the epitome of garbage talents, taken only because it was required for shield spec. I figure that Blizz MUST have had a purpose in mind for it. Is there any reason to take it into account while gearing, or is it just one of those Dumb Talents I Gotta Take(©)?

Finally, in TBC the numbers to attain CTC were 490 Def, and 102.4% Avo. I imagine you need 102.4% Avo here, as well, but what about minimum Def for uncritability (assuming Redoubt is worthless here, too)?

Thanks in advance!


(Inb4 lolprot or reroll war) I am well aware that Warriors are better at tanking raid bosses with less skill required. I also couldn't care less. Pallies were given a Prot tree for a reason, and I intend to fully explore it.

Yo, I feel a kindred spirit. TBC tankadin here also, from Kara to Sunwell. Offspec as Ret, which became my main in Wrath. Always felt like I missed out on the glory of the Vanilla raids, and also came to private servers looking to experience them after I became disgusted with retail.

As far as I know, it's impossible to attain 440def in Vanilla and become crit immune until we get hold of ZG/AQ gear. The itemisation just isn't there. The Vanilla bosses were more balanced around the idea of total HP, effective health and damage reduction through armour than on mechanical aspects like crit/crush immunity, which became more prevalent in late Vanilla and evolved fully in TBC. None of these early bosses hit so hard that a crit will outright kill an appropriately geared tank - the designers factored that in because there was no way for tanks to become crit immune. As such, HP and armor (effective health) are probably the defining stats for Vanilla tanks, at least for a few more patches. There was an article on tankspot years ago about effective health theory, I can't find it anymore but I think this was the standard approach for tanking in Vanilla.

Don't forget too, that raids in Vanilla are 40-man, so you'll have several healers spamming the tank at any point. If you eat a crit (provided you have the health and armor to take it without dying), they all spam you back up - it's not like it was in TBC where bosses hit much harder and there were less heals coming in, so getting crit or crushed was much more risky.

Because you can't be crit immune, Redoubt becomes a more valuable talent - you will be taking crits on a fairly regular basis, especially if AoE tanking large packs (the one place where Paladins are far superior to Warriors in Vanilla), you'll see Redoubt popping pretty frequently and you'll be glad of the extra block %.

I haven't done a lot of tanking in Vanilla but I've played on a few private servers now and have been generally surprised at how easy the content is compared to what I got used to dealing with in TBC. Just make sure you use consumables, stack stam, read Cysthen's tankadin guide, you'll be fine. Pally aggro generation in Vanilla is OP, and our AoE makes us great dungeon tanks when a lot of the content at present is time-consuming 5-mans with tons of trash.

GLHF!

[Tyraeus]

Oh yeah, and you should find a good ret pally and buddy up with him - he can cast JotC and you can cast JoW, so you get huge threat and mana back, and you'll get +10% threat on top of that from Sanc aura as well \o/

[smilkovpetko]

It is wrong fact that is impossible to get def cap preraid in vanilla.

Full Deathbone set+Enchanted thorium helm,stockade pauldron,medalion necklace,wrist from diremaul,brd trinket,argent dawn finger,summon boss in dungeon finger,ubrs shield.
there is your def cap hiding around. + add 15 def from enchants.

(pre 20 man) .

Check deeper for def gear from all dungeons
and def enchants from leatherwork and wrist enchant from enchanters.

there is a way for def cap enjoy .

Full Deathbone = 59 def + Enchanted Thorium Helm 9 = 68 + stockade pauldron 10 = 78 + Medallion of Grand Marshal = 88 + Band of Steadfast 7 = 95 + Ring from Argent dawn 5 = 100 + Force of Will Trinket 7 = 107 + Gloves Enchant 3 def = 110 + Talent 10 = 120 + 300 from skill = 320 , 9 def on chest,legs,helm from lw enchant = 329 + wrist enchant 331 . Good luck. you missing 10 def until cap (pre 20 man) now add idols from Zul Gurub and Finger . Have Fun.

Never go 15 agility on gloves. Always 3 Def since it is our major issue.

Even Warriors can't get 440 pre 20 man either.

Once you reach the def cap go for full stamina enchants .

[JCarrill0]

It is wrong fact that is impossible to get def cap preraid in vanilla.

Full Deathbone set+Enchanted thorium helm,stockade pauldron,medalion necklace,wrist from diremaul,brd trinket,argent dawn finger,summon boss in dungeon finger,ubrs shield.
there is your def cap hiding around. + add 15 def from enchants.

(pre 20 man) .

Check deeper for def gear from all dungeons
and def enchants from leatherwork and wrist enchant from enchanters.

there is a way for def cap enjoy .

Full Deathbone = 59 def + Enchanted Thorium Helm 9 = 68 + stockade pauldron 10 = 78 + Medallion of Grand Marshal = 88 + Band of Steadfast 7 = 95 + Ring from Argent dawn 5 = 100 + Force of Will Trinket 7 = 107 + Gloves Enchant 3 def = 110 + Talent 10 = 120 + 300 from skill = 320 , 9 def on chest,legs,helm from lw enchant = 329 + wrist enchant 331 . Good luck. you missing 10 def until cap (pre 20 man) now add idols from Zul Gurub and Finger . Have Fun.

Never go 15 agility on gloves. Always 3 Def since it is our major issue.

Even Warriors can't get Def cap pre 20 man either.

Just look at my pre-raid dungeon gear guide folks, it has everything you need to hit 440 Def. here is a preview of the items

• Enchanted Thorium Helm - Crafted by Armorsmiths
• Medallion of Grand Marshal Morris - BoE (World Drop)
• Stockade Pauldrons - BoE (World Drop)
• Redoubt Cloak - Gordok Tribute (Dire Maul - North)
• Deathbone Chestplate - Random bosses (Scholomance)
• Fel Hardened Bracers - Hel'nurath (Dire Maul - West)
• Deathbone Gauntlets - Random bosses (Scholomance)
• Deathbone Girdle - Random bosses (Scholomance)
• Deathbone Legguards - Random bosses (Scholomance)
• Deathbone Sabatons - Random bosses (Scholomance)
• Band of the Steadfast Hero - Kormok (Scholomance)
• Naglering - Argelmach (Blackrock Depths)
• Force of Will - Angerforge (Blackrock Depths)
• Draconian Deflector - Drakkisath (Blackrock Spire - Upper)

This gear alone puts you at 433 (with Talents), with Core Armorkits/Bracer Enchant, that' an additional DEF that should cap ya out

[smilkovpetko]

It is wrong fact that is impossible to get def cap preraid in vanilla.

Full Deathbone set+Enchanted thorium helm,stockade pauldron,medalion necklace,wrist from diremaul,brd trinket,argent dawn finger,summon boss in dungeon finger,ubrs shield.
there is your def cap hiding around. + add 15 def from enchants.

(pre 20 man) .

Check deeper for def gear from all dungeons
and def enchants from leatherwork and wrist enchant from enchanters.

there is a way for def cap enjoy .

Full Deathbone = 59 def + Enchanted Thorium Helm 9 = 68 + stockade pauldron 10 = 78 + Medallion of Grand Marshal = 88 + Band of Steadfast 7 = 95 + Ring from Argent dawn 5 = 100 + Force of Will Trinket 7 = 107 + Gloves Enchant 3 def = 110 + Talent 10 = 120 + 300 from skill = 320 , 9 def on chest,legs,helm from lw enchant = 329 + wrist enchant 331 . Good luck. you missing 10 def until cap (pre 20 man) now add idols from Zul Gurub and Finger . Have Fun.

Never go 15 agility on gloves. Always 3 Def since it is our major issue.

Even Warriors can't get Def cap pre 20 man either.

Just look at my pre-raid dungeon gear guide folks, it has everything you need to hit 440 Def.

You don't have Leatherwork Enchants there and you don't have Wrist enchant in order to go for Def cap preraid.