Different ranks of Judgement stacking (JotC, JoL, JoW)

[Theloras]

Hello all,

A fellow Retribution Paladin in my guild said that a GM spawned during an Onyxia raid he was in a while back and chastised them for using multiple ranks of Judgement and told them to stop doing it.

While I had originally thought that this type of activity was abuse of game mechanics due to a well known bug in private WoW Vanilla servers, it looks like I was incorrect.

Different ranks of the different Judgements are in fact working as intended and this link/quote from 2005 shows as much seeing as this server is currently setup:

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#5Oct 09 2005 at 2:50 AMRating: Decent
Cathela
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961 posts
Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

There's also a weird effect where Seal of Fury pushes the proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom way up. It seems like you get two or three times as many procs from JoW if you have SoF running, and sometimes you'll see two or three procs for a single swing. This does not work for Judgement of Light however.

Also, I think weapon procs can trigger a JoW proc, so if you have a weapon with a proc, you could proc JoW on the regular swing and on the weapon proc.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fo ... 7594799940

/discuss

[Kamil]

I groupped up with 3 others paladin for an elite quest and I told them to use a different rank of crusader, we ended with 4 crusader judge on an elite ogre and I critted for 1k as a lvl 37 ret paladin wtih SoC, maybe stacking ret in raid will improve each others dps, and if GM doesn't want paladin to do that they can just fix it imo, eitherway I wouldn't call that bug abuse, it's a nice mechanic that has tons of potential.

[Theloras]

Just an update to let you guys know more about this - I've traded a few private messages with Nano who is the head of the Nostalrius IsVV team here (aka bug reporting) and here is what he had to say regarding multiple ranks of the same Judgement on a single target:

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Sent: Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:04 pm
by Nano

I don't think I'd consider it "exploiting" but it would be considered abusing bugs if done consistently and intentionally.

I can't find any evidence to suggest that any different ranked judgements stacked on retail vanilla so it would be considered a bug.

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Sent: Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:43 pm
From: Nano
To: Theloras

Nostalrius is based on a 1.12 server and all the class talents, spells and abilities that are also 1.12. The only things that change are content available and itemization. This means quests, raids, item stats, items availability.

If it's not something that was possible during 1.12, it should be made impossible on Nostalrius. I know it seems screwy to have spells in one patch and items in another but it's the decision of the server made long ago and one we will stick by. For example, the Warlock spec of DS / MD / Ruin was fixed as that spec was fixed in 1.12 and we fixed that on Nostalrius as well.

If you can find an example or something that points to multiple judgements being allowed around the 1.12 timeframe, it's something we'll obviously allow. Without that, it seems odd that we would have different judgements allowed but not different ranked curses for example.

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The most pertinent part of what he said is in that last sentence, "It seems odd that we would have different judgements allowed but not different ranked curses for example." which is a fair comparison to make.

Ie: Judgement of the Crusader functions in a similar fashion to Curse of the Elements/Shadow

With that being said, I spent the past few hours watching old vanilla WoW videos to see if I could spot multiple ranks of the same Judgement up and I'm afraid to say that I wasn't able to find anything to back it up.

Pre Patch 1.9, I do believe you could have multiple Judgements up as the Allakhazam link I put up in the first post of this thread would dictate - given the fact that the author of that post talks about Seal of Fury and the multiple JoW procs which would trigger off of the phantom melee swings that that Seal would initiate.

From my own firsthand experience in retail Vanilla WoW, I can verify that that's how Seal of Fury worked - whether or not multiple ranks of the same Judgement worked post patch 1.9 though, I can't remember.

So, unless anyone else has or can find evidence from the 1.12.1 era of Vanilla WoW showing multiple ranks of the same Judgement being on the same target (and as much fun as it is to have uber +Holy dmg debuts up), I would not recommend doing this here on Nostalrius as it would open you up for a potential suspension/ban.

Cheers,

Theloras

PS The only thing that comes close is this video - which shows how multiple Stormstrike debuffs could stack on a single target:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghu7cBG_cQA

[Tyraeus]

Lol can you imagine, 3 or 4 ranks of Crusader on a boss with a lolprot tanking, and some lolrets and lolsmites DSPing... would be amazing. Alternate raid comps FTW

[Theloras]

Lol can you imagine, 3 or 4 ranks of Crusader on a boss with a lolprot tanking, and some lolrets and lolsmites DSPing... would be amazing. Alternate raid comps FTW

Yes, would be fun indeed but alas the Devs here would throw down the ban hammer quickly if that became the norm.

So, unless you guys can help me find evidence to back multiple ranks of Judgement on the same target I'm afraid we have to let this one slide - as much fun as it would be!