Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by Kaellrus » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:52 am

Mainly wondering how much use Holy Shock will see. Blessing of Sanctuary seems really useful for some farming and for your tanks. Do you guys suggest 30/21 or a full 31 in Holy?
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by smilkovpetko » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:26 am

if you have enough +heal and +crit, holy shock is more efficient and helpful (also saves tank if he get too low).
Sanctuary is good only for Paladin Tanks AoE damage return and aggro only. The damage reduction is not a big deal at all since it gets reduced by armor and work good against spells only.

hope this help
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by ChipTheMonk » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:29 am

In a raid environment? Pvp? 5 mans?

Holy shock can be used to keep up a target for a little longer to allow another players heal to land a full heal. In raids you can also use it to a small extent to keep your self higher on the meters.

One or two of your guilds paladins should have sanctuary in my opinion. The rest should have holy shock, and possibly 3/3 lasting judgement. (Bosanc is helpful to get full use out of a 5th paladin in a raid)

5 man dungeons would most likely not need sanctuary. Paladins can tank 5 mans well enough with either holy shock or holy shield, or even just redoubt and bosanc, though you may need to use salvation.

If you plan to raid, or join a guild, ask if they need a bosanc paladin.
If you will just be pvping, holy shock is generally much better.
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by Dr. Doom » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:58 am

This is a debate that I have with myself almost daily regarding my paladin. I have also asked my guildie holy paladins about this several times.

I think chip's post is pretty accurate.

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If your focus is PvP, then Holy Shock is most definitely the way to go. PvP dmg is much burstier than PvE, and often times you need a quick tool to keep your target alive before the 2.5 secs of Holy Light hit him. By the same token, hitting a retreating warrior so he can't drop combat-charge, or finishing a low health runner are stuff that can often times mean a significant advantage.

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The other thing with Holy Shock is that it's a pretty good tool if you want to do the eclectic combination of raid healing and dungeon tanking. Let's assume this build: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sVxubgktVRtI
One of the perks paladins as a class is getting the bulk of their tanking talents in the very first 3 tiers of protection. (Imp Hoj/Imp Conc in the fourth tier aren't necessary for tanking, reckoning is more pvp oriented, and 1H Weapon spec only affects physical damage). With enough spell damage/healing, Shock can do a lot for you tanking. A dmg spike suddenly hits you? Cast it on yourself to help your healer, get the heal threat (which is 0.5 ratio in this server) on top of surviving. Want to pull yourself, and the mob isn't undead/demon? Shock it and enjoy a very decent starter aggro. One of your ranged DPS got aggro? Shock again and it'll most times get it back to you. It can be a pseudo-taunt, akin to Shaman Earth Shock.

I had a thread on this same issue months ago: https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26018

The feedback from other paladins was:

Alexandros wrote:honestly when tanking holy shock is the best tanking talent you can have since it works as a semi taunt with divine favor and ranged pull so u dont need to carry nades.

and get imp righteous fury 3/3, you will thank me later


JCarrill0 wrote:Agreed, sub taunt ability makes things useful for dungeon tanking


Another issue to consider is: Holy Shock allows you to do emergency tanking in a way BoSanc wont.
So let's say you got hard CCed while healing (long stun/sleep/mind control), your tank took a couple of nasty hits and he died before you could get back on your feet. If you have a priest, druid or another paladin dpsing, there is a room for an amazing play that I've managed to pull succesfully twice so far: Toggle Righteous Fury on, SoR up, Shock + Judgement the mob, this will put them on you just like if you had taunted it, and have your offhealer keep you up. It will not last long since they might not be geared for it or maybe they were low on mana while dpsing, but it can certainly afford some 20-30 seconds to finish up the mobs and prevent a total wipe. Of course this requires you to have heal mail/plate and a shield rather than a nancyboy dress and a Lei of the Lifegiver cute little rose to keep up (but at least this one you can swap in combat I guess).


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Now, regarding healing 5 mans: Practically every single Holy Paladin I talk to tells me Holy Shock is used rarely since the heal/mana efficiency isn't too good, to ever prefer it over FoL spam, and it only really comes to use when a pull went wrong and a fast emergency heal is needed. On the contrary, putting BoSanc on your warrior tank is actually something that will help for the full duration of the run. Not only because of the dmg reduction making it easier to downrank FoL and keep up fine with damage, but also because a good amount of warrior tanks aren't good at managing multiple targets. I can keep 6, 7 targets on me just fine when I tank with a warrior, yet while healing I've come to know guys that can at best manage 2 or 3. Putting BoSanc on them gives them reflect dmg on shield block. Compound that with retribution aura and suddenly they don't suck as much and have a shot at holding aggro. I guarantee you any prot warrior will be pleasantly surprised to have BoSanc in a dungeon.


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Regarding raid healing: You only need 1 BoSanc Paladin to keep the 15 min buff up on the warriors, so unless you are the designated guy for it, having BoSanc ends up being redundant and a waste. Shock is then the way to go. It allows you for a slight amount of multitarget healing (You have FoL/HL on your primary heal target/tank, but some dude just took a heavy AoE, swap targets for a second, shock him, and get back to business), useful vs spikes on tanks, and to build on chip's meter point: It makes your HPS look better for when the epixx lewt is being distributed among healers.

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Summing up:

If you will do PvP Healing: Holy Shock.
If you want to tank dungeons, UBRS or maybe OT 20 mans for the challenge part of it: Holy Shock.

If you will only do PvE healing and you can afford to be designated guild guy for it: BoSanc.
Makes you stand out from the other hpaladins and earns you more tank love (and by tank I mean warrior, since the buff is wasted on druids).
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by smilkovpetko » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:35 pm

, and 1H Weapon spec only affects physical damage).


https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=3202

something that many are not familiar with , 1h weapon spec suppose to affect all abilities by 10%.
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by ceoddyn » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:40 pm

One other thing to consider is that if you want to get holy shock you are also going to lose either some of anticipation, imp hoj, or imp conc aura from the prot tree. Depends on what your overall goals are. I think it is useful though to get holy shock to max out your threat generation, specially if you can get enough +def from gear to drop anticipation.

This is for healing raid and having just enough to tank dungeons. If you go 21 in prot you should just go full 31, divine favour & holy power is not a good use of points. Sanc and holy shield is a good combo for farming, you can go without them but wont be as great. Holy shield and anticipation might be helpful for some bosses unless you always run with a good healer or never tank.
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:51 am

ceoddyn wrote:One other thing to consider is that if you want to get holy shock you are also going to lose either some of anticipation, imp hoj, or imp conc aura from the prot tree. Depends on what your overall goals are. I think it is useful though to get holy shock to max out your threat generation, specially if you can get enough +def from gear to drop anticipation.

This is for healing raid and having just enough to tank dungeons. If you go 21 in prot you should just go full 31, divine favour & holy power is not a good use of points. Sanc and holy shield is a good combo for farming, you can go without them but wont be as great. Holy shield and anticipation might be helpful for some bosses unless you always run with a good healer or never tank.


nothing can replace Holy Shield on aggro , Holy Shock compare to Holy Shield is not even close .

And you can't have both at same time.
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by DrearyYew » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:52 am

ceoddyn wrote:One other thing to consider is that if you want to get holy shock you are also going to lose either some of anticipation, imp hoj, or imp conc aura from the prot tree.


You should never have all of those anyways, if you don't have 5/5 Holy Power you're doing it wrong.

Core Talents:

5/5 Divine Intellect
5/5 Spiritual Focus (4/5 with 3/3 Improved Concentration Aura)
3/3 Healing Light
5/5 Illumination
1/1 Divine Favor
5/5 Holy Power

2 Paladins per Raid:

3/3 Lasting Judgement

1 Paladin per Raid:

2/2 Improved Blessing of Wisdom
1/1 Blessing of Kings
1/1 Blessing of Sanctuary
5/5 Improved Blessing of Might



And if you use a Paladin to tank Nefarian skeletons and Suppression Room,

1 Paladin per Raid:

5/5 Redoubt
3/3 Shield Specialization

No, deep Prot is not mandatory, and is something I wouldn't ever recommend to anyone.
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by smilkovpetko » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:25 pm

1 Paladin per Raid:

5/5 Redoubt
3/3 Shield Specialization
No, deep Prot is not mandatory, and is something I wouldn't ever recommend to anyone.


Blessing of Sanctuary , Holy Shield for neffarian p3 is mother in law
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Re: Holy Shock vs. Blessing of Sanctuary

by ceoddyn » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:10 pm

5/5 Holy power is worthless if you don't pick up holy shock. Your core talents list is garbage. There's no reason to go 30/21 unless you're in a shit tier guild that can't clear MC and BWL without absolutely min/maxing every person in the raid's spec. Your "1 paladin per raid" spec is missing about 90% of the core tanking talents.

Moving on,

31/20 = retard raid heal spec, if you have amazing gear you can do other things besides afk during raid.

30/21 = dont even bother

20/31 = you can raid heal and get other things done, you'll have reckoning for pvp. you're not playing a moron spec. You'll either have imp hoj and imp conc aura, OR anticipation. You won't have all of them, as I said "YOU WILL LOSE SOME OF THE FOLLOWING:". Both you and Smilko, please learn to read. I recommend dropping anticipation since you lose too much by not having the other two. Of course, it's basically impossible to make up 10 lost +def points. There are maybe 5 paladins on the server I have found who have the gear to do that.

You might need to change to 31/20 for progression through AQ and Naxx.
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