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Re: Tank - BiS Weapon Breakdown

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:40 pm
by smilkovpetko
SoRDamagePerSwing: 100 ( Including BaseDmg + Spellpower(200) + JotC Debuff)


This is the problem with JustClassic calculations ^ and his confusion.

I already reported the Formula for SoR on bugtracker but we have lazy isvv.

1- It should not be 10% coefficient and this is out of date back in 2005 , since 2005 up to latest patch 1.12.1 SoR was changed 10 times .

I even investigated with vanilla Videos and it proved the formula that coefficient suppose to be 9.2% (or 9.8 must check) per 1.0 weapon speed , which mean for 2.1 would go up to 19% coefficient or more .

Which mean Base damage due to speed is 50 + (let say 20%) 40 = 90 + (140 jotc) 28 = 118 + 5 by AP + 6 by weap dmg = 129 + 1-handed weap spec = 141 Holy damage = 269 threats / 2 = 134 Threats .


I still believe that Thunderfury+Sotc outperforms Lok'Amir+SoR as long as SotC and Consecration are bugged on Nostalrius.


Well the problem lies here , since i explained the formula with basic example how much SoR suppose to swing as you did "retail formula for TF + Nost Bugged SoTC"

Let me enlighten you last thing here since we talk about "Bugged version" , where TF still doesn't give proper threats in Nost compare to the values you mention (not even close) .

See how much SoR would swing in Nostalrius with 200 SP.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p263215

It will go beyond 250 Holy Damage per swing + JoTC = 300 or something damage will result in Nostalrius where + 90% threats = 570 / 2.1 = 271 Threats per second only and only by SoR without white swings etc.

(this will result in something like 373 threats by Lok'Amir compare to TF that you mention with 259)

As i said i am not yet home but when i come back i will post you evidence, yet you are not enough inform about this.

Fixed or bugged versions TF is way worse Threats than lok'amir, it's up to you to rethink before you try harder .

Reason , Fixed SoTC will have huge DPS penalty to TF that will massive reduce it's Threats.
Same rule Apply to SoR but according to "fixed formula" it will still give so high to match and overthreat TF fixed version SoTC.

Last thing is Lok'Amir + weap ench = 114 SP + zandalari ench = 132 + brilliant wizard oil = 168 + greater arcane elixir = 204 SP + Supreme Flask = 354 SP

(even without supreme flask , 204 SP is guarantee)

Re: Tank - BiS Weapon Breakdown

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:51 pm
by justclassic
smilkovpetko wrote:
SoRDamagePerSwing: 100 ( Including BaseDmg + Spellpower(200) + JotC Debuff)


This is the problem with JustClassic calculations ^ and his confusion.


This is no calculation I did. I tested it with a flask and debuff on a spider in searing gorge.

smilkovpetko wrote:I already reported the Formula for SoR on bugtracker but we have lazy isvv.

1- It should not be 10% coefficient and this is out of date back in 2005 , since 2005 up to latest patch 1.12.1 SoR was changed 10 times .

I even investigated with vanilla Videos and it proved the formula that coefficient suppose to be 9.2% (or 9.8 must check) per 1.0 weapon speed , which mean for 2.1 would go up to 19% coefficient or more .


Well I'm fully aware of the fact that things might not work correct at the moment. BUT all I ever wanted to do is find out what on current Nost-State turns out to be the best.


smilkovpetko wrote:
I still believe that Thunderfury+Sotc outperforms Lok'Amir+SoR as long as SotC and Consecration are bugged on Nostalrius.


Well the problem lies here , since i explained the formula with basic example how much SoR suppose to swing as you did "retail formula for TF + Nost Bugged SoTC"

Let me enlighten you last thing here since we talk about "Bugged version" , where TF still doesn't give proper threats in Nost compare to the values you mention (not even close) .


So where do you get that from ? I didnt find a post on this forums regarding TF's threat not being correct. There is a thread about its procc-chance which was fixed to vanillas 25% in one of the last patches.

smilkovpetko wrote:See how much SoR would swing in Nostalrius with 200 SP.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p263215

It will go beyond 250 Holy Damage per swing + JoTC = 300 or something damage will result in Nostalrius where + 90% threats = 570 / 2.1 = 271 Threats per second only and only by SoR without white swings etc.


I think I also left a response in that topic but I'm not sure. The problem with that picture is within the trinket used. It rather adds the dmg to the spell instead of increasing spellpower. Its a common bug of this trinket on private servers. For example equiping the +12 spelldmg trinket from BRD gives 1! additional dmg to sor.

smilkovpetko wrote:Reason , Fixed SoTC will have huge DPS penalty to TF that will massive reduce it's Threats.
Same rule Apply to SoR but according to "fixed formula" it will still give so high to match and overthreat TF fixed version SoTC.


I think SoR is currently weaker than it should be as my testing resulted in <10% scaling. Yet it is definetly true that the fixing of sotc and consec would totally kill sotc for tanking. BUT these bugs are reported for more than 1 year and nothing has been done. So I dont know when a dev will put hands on this.

smilkovpetko wrote:Last thing is Lok'Amir + weap ench = 114 SP + zandalari ench = 132 + brilliant wizard oil = 168 + greater arcane elixir = 204 SP + Supreme Flask = 354 SP


Well I excluded Lok'amir from this 200SP I used in my comparison. Yet even if we use 300 SP as a base in my numbers TF would still come ahead.

Re: Tank - BiS Weapon Breakdown

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:43 pm
by Theloras
TLDR - Duki is correct as per actual "Blizzlike" during retail Vanilla but with the bugs here, the reality on the ground is different so both approaches are valid depending on what kind of gear you have access to and what play style you prefer.