Premades...

Re: Premades...

by Slibzshady » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:46 am

Lection wrote:
stimz wrote: low pop bgroups.


wat


shows he has no clue. There was not this amount of geared premades as active on ANY realm in vanilla.
If you say so, you've either not played vanilla or you can't remember very well.

But who cares only backpedaling pve heroes stomping afk pugs )) this is how dragonslayers like it, they like grinding/farming they dont like good games/competition

lmao this guy stimz is the kind of guy who would mention a wotlk glad title, like it actually means something ? ? ? ? :?
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Re: Premades...

by stimz » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:52 am

Slibzshady wrote:
Lection wrote:
stimz wrote: low pop bgroups.


wat


shows he has no clue. There was not this amount of geared premades as active on ANY realm in vanilla.
If you say so, you've either not played vanilla or you can't remember very well.

But who cares only backpedaling pve heroes stomping afk pugs )) this is how dragonslayers like it, they like grinding/farming they dont like good games/competition

lmao this guy stimz is the kind of guy who would mention a wotlk glad title, like it actually means something ? ? ? ? :?


I'm the kind of guy that is almost positive you were born after 2000. Begging for GM intervention vs attempting to be competitive is par for the course these days.

If a server with 10k online doesn't have 10 to 15 skilled pvpers on horde, I don't know what to say.

Also no, I queued into premades nonstop in vanilla, but a lot of the top premades were busy fighting each other. That's the difference. Horde has no top premades, they don't even have one from what I understand. Of course alliance is gonna run a train on such an unorganized faction and it ain't gonna stop unless you stop them.
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Re: Premades...

by Icoppelia » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:38 am

If you want casual battlegrounds you have to go to AV. I don't see how you can be finished ranking if you don't yet understand how pvp works on this server. There are plenty of Alliance premades that aren't very good. Just ask other good players you meet in battlegrounds to group up.
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Re: Premades...

by Blib » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:45 am

Alliance gets stomped in pug vs pug, so naturally they do something about it and form premades. What is stopping you from doing the same instead of crying about a game that is working as intended?
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Re: Premades...

by bleik » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:35 am

Blib wrote:Alliance gets stomped in pug vs pug, so naturally they do something about it and form premades. What is stopping you from doing the same instead of crying about a game that is working as intended?


Alot of people just want todo a few casual battlegrounds here and there. Obviously if you are going to be a tryhard honor farmer you should get a premade. Like I did when I actually farmed for ranks.

But alot of people, including me, have enjoyed doing random battlegrounds just to kill time and have fun with some random pvp. That is just not possible with the current system. Have fun that is. If that keeps up - the pvp community will shrink and we will all lose out in the end...

I am not saying that they should revert it to what it was a few weeks ago - that obviously failed hard with wintrading and weakened the point of going premade too much(one of the reasons why horde lacks premades - a few weeks ago noone ever did one). But there is obviously more choices then one of the two we have already had on this server.
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Re: Premades...

by bleik » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:37 am

Icoppelia wrote:If you want casual battlegrounds you have to go to AV. I don't see how you can be finished ranking if you don't yet understand how pvp works on this server. There are plenty of Alliance premades that aren't very good. Just ask other good players you meet in battlegrounds to group up.


You dont know how the server worked a few weeks ago do you? This problem was nonexistant then.

However there were other huge problems with the system we had then..
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Re: Premades...

by bleik » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:52 am

stimz wrote:
I'm the kind of guy that is almost positive you were born after 2000. Begging for GM intervention vs attempting to be competitive is par for the course these days.

If a server with 10k online doesn't have 10 to 15 skilled pvpers on horde, I don't know what to say.

Also no, I queued into premades nonstop in vanilla, but a lot of the top premades were busy fighting each other. That's the difference. Horde has no top premades, they don't even have one from what I understand. Of course alliance is gonna run a train on such an unorganized faction and it ain't gonna stop unless you stop them.


Horde premades win against alot of the alliance premades.. Before the change it was quite normal to win against 5 man alliance premades with horde randoms aswell.. You say it was like this on vanilla - but have you actually tried to queue as horde on late hours these days? I played waaaay to much back in 2005/6 on a highly populated server and it was never anything like this.

But horde has 15-30min queues - and alot less premades compared to randoms(horde players pvp more). Which means that for each game the premades get against eachother the alliance premade stomps 3-4 horde randoms before they can even meet again due to the queue.

What they could do is prioritize premade vs premade without any timer like before. As in if theres a horde premade in the queue when alliance premade signs up - they should be put up against eachother even if that means that the horde prem skips the queue. More competition and fun for all.

Lets be honest, 5 capping randoms is not very fun either after a few hundred games...
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Re: Premades...

by Blib » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:32 am

bleik wrote:But horde has 15-30min queues - and alot less premades compared to randoms(horde players pvp more). Which means that for each game the premades get against eachother the alliance premade stomps 3-4 horde randoms before they can even meet again due to the queue.

What they could do is prioritize premade vs premade without any timer like before. As in if theres a horde premade in the queue when alliance premade signs up - they should be put up against eachother even if that means that the horde prem skips the queue. More competition and fun for all.

Lets be honest, 5 capping randoms is not very fun either after a few hundred games...

How would your suggestion combat wintrading? It would be wintrading heaven.
And the casuals you're trying to 'protect' on horde side would be forced into premading or their queues would end up being at least twice as long.

A system without MMR that values time invested over actual skills is inherently flawed. You would have to redesign the whole thing for it to make sense.
You know what you signed up for, now step up or shut up mate, the crying without offering a proper solution is getting boring.
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Re: Premades...

by bleik » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:48 am

Blib wrote:
bleik wrote:But horde has 15-30min queues - and alot less premades compared to randoms(horde players pvp more). Which means that for each game the premades get against eachother the alliance premade stomps 3-4 horde randoms before they can even meet again due to the queue.

What they could do is prioritize premade vs premade without any timer like before. As in if theres a horde premade in the queue when alliance premade signs up - they should be put up against eachother even if that means that the horde prem skips the queue. More competition and fun for all.

Lets be honest, 5 capping randoms is not very fun either after a few hundred games...

How would your suggestion combat wintrading? It would be wintrading heaven.
And the casuals you're trying to 'protect' on horde side would be forced into premading or their queues would end up being at least twice as long.

A system without MMR that values time invested over actual skills is inherently flawed. You would have to redesign the whole thing for it to make sense.
You know what you signed up for, now step up or shut up mate, the crying without offering a proper solution is getting boring.


Without the timer the alliance premade would never know if they faced a premade or not, they will have instant queues no matter what. So it would be harder to wintrade then it was before(before you could just see if the queues popped at the same time - in this scenario the queue would always pop instant anyway)..

And the most important would be having GMs come hard with their banhammers against anyone who actually gets caught doing this.

I think most casuals dont mind another 5minute queue if that means that the previous 30minutes of waiting doesnt get wasted in a 2min stompfest.. The premades will have to fight eachother which means you are less likely to meet them.

And I am not "crying", I am just pointing out the problems with the current situation and how this will effect the community in a bad way. My suggestions on how to fix it is problary very flawed, and some other bright minds might have better ideas how to get a good system going.

How about you stop trying to shut down the discussion and contribute instead? One does not have to have a solution to start a discussion on a forum on how to actually fix it. If you are not interested, if you find it boring etc, you are welcome to not participate.
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Re: Premades...

by Blib » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:39 am

bleik wrote:
Blib wrote:
bleik wrote:But horde has 15-30min queues - and alot less premades compared to randoms(horde players pvp more). Which means that for each game the premades get against eachother the alliance premade stomps 3-4 horde randoms before they can even meet again due to the queue.

What they could do is prioritize premade vs premade without any timer like before. As in if theres a horde premade in the queue when alliance premade signs up - they should be put up against eachother even if that means that the horde prem skips the queue. More competition and fun for all.

Lets be honest, 5 capping randoms is not very fun either after a few hundred games...

How would your suggestion combat wintrading? It would be wintrading heaven.
And the casuals you're trying to 'protect' on horde side would be forced into premading or their queues would end up being at least twice as long.

A system without MMR that values time invested over actual skills is inherently flawed. You would have to redesign the whole thing for it to make sense.
You know what you signed up for, now step up or shut up mate, the crying without offering a proper solution is getting boring.


Without the timer the alliance premade would never know if they faced a premade or not, they will have instant queues no matter what. So it would be harder to wintrade then it was before(before you could just see if the queues popped at the same time - in this scenario the queue would always pop instant anyway)..

And the most important would be having GMs come hard with their banhammers against anyone who actually gets caught doing this.

I think most casuals dont mind another 5minute queue if that means that the previous 30minutes of waiting doesnt get wasted in a 2min stompfest.. The premades will have to fight eachother which means you are less likely to meet them.

And I am not "crying", I am just pointing out the problems with the current situation and how this will effect the community in a bad way. My suggestions on how to fix it is problary very flawed, and some other bright minds might have better ideas how to get a good system going.

How about you stop trying to shut down the discussion and contribute instead? One does not have to have a solution to start a discussion on a forum on how to actually fix it. If you are not interested, if you find it boring etc, you are welcome to not participate.

Mate this has been beaten to death and revived so many times, I'm sorry if I come off as a dick because my patience with badly thought through ideas is short. I'm well aware that the system is nowhere near perfect, but nothing you're presenting is revolutionizing.

Regardless of how you twist it or turn it, systematic wintrading would be made possible, unlike now.
Alliance would know they were facing a premade if their friends queued up on horde side since it's prem vs prem prio. Horde prem just have to queue up a second before them. Worst case scenario (for them) they would have to sacrifice one to scout.
Also, more work for GMs if they gotta start monitoring this.

According to your previous statement the Alliance have fewer overall pvpers but more premades (I'm not denying that btw) 5 min longer queues for horde pugs? Nah, just nah.

You also failed to address partial premades, there are inevitably gonna be some premades who will split up into smaller groups after being stomped by the same premades repeatedly.

Discussion? :lol:
The tone was set right from the first post, it was complaints without bringing anything new to the table.
As I said before "A system without MMR that values time invested over actual skills is inherently flawed. You would have to redesign the whole thing for it to make sense." And even then, if they decided to somehow redesign it completely, people would come storming out with their pitchforks and torches while screaming "MUH BLIZZLIKE"

Some things are just best left as it is even though it undoubtedly isn't perfect.
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