Cerina - Ban Appeal (Continued) - NEW VITAL INFORMATION

[dooya]

Hi,

I am speaking on behalf of Dooya the Night Elf Warrior of <Vintage> as well as Dooyapaladin the Human Paladin also of <Vintage> as well as Littledooya the Gnome Rogue of <Vintage>.

Original thread: https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... t=pronator

TL;DR Cerina was perma banned when he clearly should have received a warning.

This effects me greatly because I lent him 60 gold and he still has not paid me back. Also because he was one of my top 10 favorite Europeans on the server. (But mostly the 60g he owes me). Please reconsider your permaban on him. The man woke up every day at like 5 AM just to raid with us and played a ridiculous amount on this server. He volunteered at the homeless shelter in his free time and helped keep recovering addicts clean and off the streets.

GOOD PEOPLE DO BAD THINGS. You guys just sentenced Cerina to be executed in front of the whole town to see for finding a minor loophole in the system to make some chump change. Please reconsider to change his sentence to a week long time in prison with 20 hours of public service.

#roguelivesmatter #hefuckingowesme60g #dooyasgoldmatters

Kindest Regards,

<Dooya>
<Dooyapaladin>
<Littledooya>


P.S. Do we really want another Ferguson??


Also the other dude should probably get unbanned too, he was just trying to feed his starving children

[dootdootdoot]

I still don't understand the logic of this being considered a major bug. A major bug should is not one that can be caused simply by buying something from an NPC

[Misbelief]

While I may be new to this server I thought id just post my 2 cents. I took the time to read through the TOS and found this entire situation.... odd. From what I could gather the accusations of preferential treatment to select members of the community seems fairly accurate.

The following is from the TOS:
D - Last warning.: A last warning is given before a permanent ban. This sanction is applied in case of multiple violations of the rules, or after multiple account interruptions, as well as any of the following:

Abuse of in-game bugs;

Example of staff implementation of said rule.
Abusing a newly released pvp background to obtain exalted in a single day. Then used to purchase exalted items. Clearly exploiting a feature in the game

E - Permanent ban.: Most serious sanction. Permanent bans are rare but definitive. This sanction is applied in case of multiple violations of the rules, or after multiple account interruption, as well as any of the following:

Examples:
Abuse of major in-game bugs;


Example of staff implementation of said rule.
Purchasing items from a vendor.


Both instances could be considered exploiting. But how can the staff take such a hard line on some and allow others to simply slip on by? Please be consistent in your judgement and allow long time members of the community to learn from these situations.

Thank you for your time and understanding

[Jurary]

Your only arguement seems to be that he nolifes this game 24/7. All the more reason a WoW vacation should do him good irl.

[dooya]

Your only arguement seems to be that he owes you 60g. All the more he should get unbanned

fixed that for you bud

#roguelivesmatter #cerinagate

[Solmyr]

(In before lock)

Quote from the previous thread:

My guildmate got banned aswell at the same time as the GM tried to extort him: http://imgur.com/a/bq05w

Just wanted to mention that I am pleasantly surprised at the way the interrogation was conducted. What Plask refers to as extortion is in fact a standard legal procedure in courts all over the world where the defendant is offered mitigation of his sentence if he cooperates with the authorities. I am not commenting on whether "ratting out fellow guildies" should be applauded or not, this choice is up to the individual player, but the fact Nostalrius offer this option bespeaks a level of professionalism I had not seen yet.

Disclaimer: I provide no comment on whether or not the rules that govern these particular bans are too strict and severe or not. The above is merely my opinion on the manner of enforcement of the existing rules and the practices employed in that.

[Plask]

(In before lock)

This is so getting locked, any thread referencing the old threads has been locked ;D

[Rackade]

(In before lock)

Quote from the previous thread:

My guildmate got banned aswell at the same time as the GM tried to extort him: http://imgur.com/a/bq05w

Just wanted to mention that I am pleasantly surprised at the way the interrogation was conducted. What Plask refers to as extortion is in fact a standard legal procedure in courts all over the world where the defendant is offered mitigation of his sentence if he cooperates with the authorities. I am not commenting on whether "ratting out fellow guildies" should be applauded or not, this choice is up to the individual player, but the fact Nostalrius offer this option bespeaks a level of professionalism I had not seen yet.

Disclaimer: I provide no comment on whether or not the rules that govern these particular bans are too strict and severe or not. The above is merely my opinion on the manner of enforcement of the existing rules and the practices employed in that.

OT: Almost every post you made on the feenix forums made me cringe, glad to see it's the same here. Social awkwardness taken to a new level. When I see your posts I wan't to quote the doctor from Idiocracy "you talk like a f@g and your shits all retarded".

OnT: These bans are extreme. I think the game masters have made a mistake here. Sadly they've put you(nostalrius) in a situation where you know you're wrong, but you can't really do much, and that's bad for your image as a server. The reason you can't do much is because it would have a snowball effect on appeals and people would refer back to this for every single "infraction" (just like I'm about to refer to the sanctions of those who "exploited" AV herbs, to me it seems to be pretty much the same thing).
Please, reconsider the bans in this case... these players obviously meant no harm. It might be considered stupid to buy a fast respawning herb from a vendor, but so should looting a fast respawning black lotus in AV, and all that happened there: items removed.
@Nostalrius What I'm gettng at: Is consistency in applying your rules of no concern? Do we exist in a realm where we can at any time be a victim, just from the whims of the game masters?

Hopefully there will be some community damage control, and these players will be unbanned with the "exploited" items removed.

@Bannedplayers Best of luck guys! I hope you get unbanned!

[Solmyr]

OT: Almost every post you made on the feenix forums made me cringe, glad to see it's the same here. Social awkwardness taken to a new level. When I see your posts I wan't to quote the doctor from Idiocracy "you talk like a f@g and your shits all retarded".

Couldn't care less about your opinion, whoever you are.

Btw thanks for the [inadvertent] compliment about my consistency - I'm sure you didn't mean it.

[Slicy]

(In before lock)

Quote from the previous thread:

My guildmate got banned aswell at the same time as the GM tried to extort him: http://imgur.com/a/bq05w

Just wanted to mention that I am pleasantly surprised at the way the interrogation was conducted. What Plask refers to as extortion is in fact a standard legal procedure in courts all over the world where the defendant is offered mitigation of his sentence if he cooperates with the authorities. I am not commenting on whether "ratting out fellow guildies" should be applauded or not, this choice is up to the individual player, but the fact Nostalrius offer this option bespeaks a level of professionalism I had not seen yet.

Disclaimer: I provide no comment on whether or not the rules that govern these particular bans are too strict and severe or not. The above is merely my opinion on the manner of enforcement of the existing rules and the practices employed in that.

Yeah dude let's talk about standard legal procedure since you mention it.
In a standard legal procedure you get to know the identity of the person interrogating you, don't you ? I wouldn't even bother to answer to a GM that isn't telling me who he is. It could be a troll. Would you let yourself be arrested without checking this guy is a real cop ?

GMs didn't ban nor remove all the black lotus a lot of people camped for days and days when the nodes had static spawn locations.They recognized it was a bug and the staff's fault regarding scripts.
Later on with AV, black lotus ppl got from yet another bug that remained alive after testing were partially deleted.
Now same problem but different sentence : fail scripts, bug happens and ppl get bans before they get the chance to realise it's actually a bug and report it.
Everything I knew about Case Law in European and American judiciary systems as well as common sense is being questionned. It is the exact same facts and circumstances, yet the sentences are different.

This series of ban sounds too much like some sort of mafia or witch hunting. Those players just bought items to a NPC and they've been asked to rat out everyone like it's some sort of elaborated and illegal black market. It's not even affecting the server's economy at all. One could even argue people are lead to camp DMF vendors because of the "blizzlike" rates we have for nodes when the population of the server isn't blizzlike, at all. It has been months since we want slightly faster/dynamic/whatever nodes respawn rates. This "bug" is actually something the community wants, since months. Dynamic respawn timers on mobs was a good thing. Why not extending it to nodes/limited supplies ?

Anyways, these players don't deserve a perma ban for something they might have not realised. Not even the GM knew about this bug. "I was not aware that the vendor inventory was refreshing every 2 minutes"
Considering the fact it's not proven that these players knew the fast respawn of supplies was a bug, malicious intent isn't proven. I didn't (and still don't) know what the respawn time of each single items sold by DMF vendors should be. That's the developers task and to some extent the testers' one by helping them preventing this kind of situations, not mine. If it failed, it shouldn't be on the players shoulders. This is the level of professionalism I would be pleasantly suprised to see.

It should have lead to deletion of the items they bought as well as warnings and to some extent temporary bans. Some way more serious offenses have been committed concerning "bug abuses" and they got away with temporary bans, not permanent ones.